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Old 08-30-2015, 12:34 PM   #43
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???

Having read through this thread a few times, I now have a question. The OP wants to know about a "solar generator" for his situation. He is in an area that restricts motorized generators at night. Why is he saying he wants to use the solar generator during the day and the new motorized generator at night?
I do have 320watt solar, 1750w inverter, and 440 amps of battery bank, and I don't need to run my 4k generator at night.


An edit:
In rereading, He says mumbo jumbo to solar and going to go with generator cover. He is still saying 'run generator at night'.
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Old 08-30-2015, 12:42 PM   #44
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I think he meant gen in day and solar at night. But is it really 700 continuous? I mean you can plan to shut off bath heater while uzingt microwave. And why does a furnace need 300 w starting power? Are additional propane tanks allowed?
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Old 08-30-2015, 02:00 PM   #45
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Based on the size of his rig and the description of what he says he wants to power over night, eg lights, residential, refridge and propane furnance; let say for the sake of "arguement" that rate of comsumption over 8 hours, amounts to 300 DC amp/hours to be recharge--probably still too high but lets just say. His 700 AC watt genny puts out maybe 5-6 AC amps, converts to 50-60 DC amps, so assuming he has a larger charger or is using the DC charge side of his genny, he would need 5-6 hours of genny time each day [assumes no other AC needs while recharging]--yes, no, maybe? So how many watts of solar would he need to use to recover those same 300 DC amp/hours using solar only and assumming a typical sunny Arizona winter day?????
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Old 08-30-2015, 02:45 PM   #46
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It's looking like he needs the storage first step. Like he needs to get 6 batteries first off or 600ahr of storage. Then work on weaning off the gen hours with solar. Perhaps a battery monitor so he gets a clear picture of usage.
Go ahead and tell me if I'm wet behind the ears.
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Old 08-30-2015, 02:45 PM   #47
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Solar Generators

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Scout View Post
So how many watts of solar would he need to use to recover those same 300 DC amp/hours using solar only and assumming a typical sunny Arizona winter day?????

Really about the same watts as the generator. 50 amps x 6 hours = 300 Ah

About 675 watts of solar is required.


The OP only has about $200 invested in his generator and line conditioner, so he must think we are crazy when we tell him it will cost $2000 to power his loads overnight......but that is the cost with current technology. 😃

But what he must understand is that cheap Chinese generator won't hold up long when asked to run 24 hours per day.....the solar panels will happily produce power for 20 years
or more....and the batteries should last 7-10 years as well !

Now if he would buy a 1600 watt generator, he could recharge the batteries AND power his loads during the day.....now the solar panels aren't needed, but he would still need batteries and a 60 amp minimum smart charger. I would advise 8 GC2 batteries at $800 and a smart converter/charger $200.
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Old 08-30-2015, 03:00 PM   #48
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So the OP would need qty 8 of these batteries.

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And 1 of these

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And either a second generator like he has.....or just one which is double the capacity like a Honda EU2000i
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Old 08-31-2015, 10:04 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Scout View Post
I have been quietly sitting on the sidelines watching as this thread reached what has become a fairly predictable conclusion here on IRV2--eg, good people, trying to help, but hopelessly lost between "fact and opinion," with a few personality disorders mixed in, just to keep things "interesting."
I disagree. The problem is that the OP does not know what he needs and has taken no time to figure it out. We try to help but the information is ignored. Read post #33 again. Doing an energy audit/electrical budget was suggested early on. I don't see anyone lost between "fact and opinion".

Quote:
Originally Posted by cimplexsound View Post
4 amps of power in an 8 hour period
4 amps of what (AC or DC)??? Assuming 12.5 V DC, I cannot understand why the OP thinks he cannot run off his battery during the overnight hours. Nearly any of the typical RV batteries will provide this (even the single battery setup that I think the OP said he has).

He then goes on to list a variety of equipment but does not give enough information to form any conclusions or make any calculations. This is a clear sign that understanding is lacking. For example:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cimplexsound View Post
My furnace will start up on 1.5 AMPS of power
Amps at what voltage - 12 V DC or 110 V AC? How long does it typically run at night? How much power does it draw while running?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cimplexsound View Post
all interior lighting is probably 25 watts
25 watts total for the entire night or 25 watts while running?? How long is it typically used at night. An hour or two is barely any power, all night would be 16-20 amps but that doesn't jive with what has been said above.

Then the statement that really makes no sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cimplexsound View Post
So 700 watts of continuous power that can last for 9 hours until the sun recharges my battery bank the next day would be for me, the perfect solution.
WHAT?? Is the request for 55 amps of 12.5V power each hour of the night? That makes little sense - must be running a video arcade or something. Is the request for a total of 700 watts of power used during the course of the entire night? It was just stated that "4 amps of power in an 8 hour period" (32 Ah - or a 400 watts) is enough so that can't be it either.

Then there is the discussion about this cheap generator being "quiet" at 89 db. 89 db is not quite by any measure but one really has to discuss things like load and distance from the generator to discuss noise and db ratings.

If the OP only wanted opinions on the "solar generators" mentioned, then post a link and let us see what he is talking about. I stated my opinion based on what I **thought** he was talking about (makes no sense to me).

If the OP truly wanted some help with an electrical system that will work for his needs, one approach would be to do an energy audit and post the details here. Each electrical item, it's wattage and time used each day (document in watts, not AC/DC as it just becomes confusing). This could even be broken down to day and night, if really desired. If it helps, this would look something like the following (only an example):

Day:
Water pump: 75 watts, 10 minutes
Microwave: 1500 watts, 5 minutes

Night:
Lights: 25 watts, 4 hours
Furnace: 100 watts, 30 minutes
Television: 100 watts. 2 hours

Once complete, it is pretty easy to know what one's typical energy requirements are each day. Coming up with a design to store the necessary power and a charging system to charge that store is pretty simple.

Of course, there is "the other approach" that works for some folks. Go buy some stuff, install it, and see how it works for you (and repeat when not satisfied).
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Old 08-31-2015, 10:07 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasdad1 View Post
So the OP would need qty 8 of these batteries.
Based on the OP's rig and lots of guessing, I think that is a incorrect.

I think the power needs are way over stated and what is actually needed is very slight.

I believe very inexpensive solar system could be designed/installed that meets his needs (in the $500-$800 range). Thus, my constant point to find out what is actually needed.
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Old 09-01-2015, 06:10 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Scout View Post
So how many watts of solar would he need to use to recover those same 300 DC amp/hours using solar only and assumming a typical sunny Arizona winter day?????
About 600 watts. 300 Ah divided by 8 hours of sun times 13.5 (charging voltage) = 500 watts divided by .8 (80% efficient, rough guess).

I still don't buy that he consumes that much power during the overnight hours.
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Old 09-01-2015, 12:13 PM   #52
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The op did state he uses quite a bit of propane to keep warm plus a bathroom heater. Of course the bath heater probably cycles on and off.
I hope the OP comes back and spends the time to listen to you JFNM as you do seem to know your stuff.

I am thinking after looking at a 1800 watt solar generator system any real world news was going to hurt the mind and pocket book $

for example this 1800 watt solar generator has a 40 watt Pv and 60 Ahr battery.
http://www.amazon.com/KISAE-40400-18...0_SR309%2C480_

according to a run time estimate chart in my Kisae 1000 watt inverter manual it says under a 1500w load a 60 AHr battery will last 8 min. its not recommended for a 2000w load.
a 500w load will run for 2 hours on a 120 aHr battery.
a 500w load will run for 5 hours on a 300 ahr battery bank. I am not sure if this assumes to use only half the capacity? it seemed like it assumes using more than 50%?

I say many of these solar generator deals sound like snake oil. There should be some standard specifications required like APR for a loan. Basically these are large size emergency jumpstarter systems. Most of them seem to be are designed for very short power off situations.
Hopefully the OP will get a power monitor installed and start learning what his real power usage is. I am new to this concept myself. I find it quite entertaining. I have always understood electricity pretty well and how much power various home appliances use but I am on the grid so my interest wasn't very detailed.
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Old 09-01-2015, 01:41 PM   #53
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So if I ran the fridge on gas too, I'd never be able to stay on top of propane situation.

Well I think I finally found the root of cimplexsound's problem 😃
Get a 100 pound propane tank delivered to your site for the winter, and use that for
your absorption type fridge and furnace. Then your electrical needs will be very modest
for the night time hours, and easily be handled by your batteries and generator.



"It's not really practical to run an absorption refrigerator from the batteries. Absorption refrigerators work by using heat (from a flame or an electrical heating element) to provide the power to run the cooling unit. This is much less efficient than using a motor driven compressor to do the same thing.

An absorption refrigerator uses heating elements that draw between 350 to 600 watts, depending on the size of the refrigerator, or about 10 times as much power as a conventional compressor driven refrigerator uses."

http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/ind...?topic=28638.0
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Old 09-01-2015, 02:07 PM   #54
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Well I think I finally found the root of cimplexsound's problem 😃
Get a 100 pound propane tank delivered to your site for the winter, and use that for
your absorption type fridge and furnace. Then your electrical needs will be very modest
for the night time hours, and easily be handled by your batteries and generator.

Your probably right pasdad1 - good catch! It would be great if he'd come back and clarify. I found the the following comment from him which just leaves me guessing. 2.4 amps at 12 V DC or 120 V AC??

Quote:
Originally Posted by cimplexsound View Post
my fridge is 2.4 AMPs
Assuming AC, that would help to explain some of the perceived power needs. And, it would mean a big battery bank as previously suggested. I agree with you, running the absorption fridge on propane or getting a residential fridge to run on electric would be better options.

Of course, if it is cold enough outside to need heat inside, why not just cut a hole in the back of the fridge and use that nice cold air to keep the food cold!?!?!
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Old 09-01-2015, 02:47 PM   #55
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outside air refer bypass.. that may be something we see in new RV's in 5 years.
several pages back I did ask if larger propane tanks were allowed. I thought the OP said his fridge was 240 watt?
While we are hijacking this thread. When I stayed in a small seaside trailer park/ rv campground in
N Portland this past July many of the more permanent looking residents had funny home build wooden boxes extending out from the side of their trailers. Any idea what this was for? Larger propane tanks? I wanted to ask as I am always a guy to try to figure out everything I see. I pulled in late for a 10$ park, shower, sleep, and go.
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Old 09-01-2015, 09:05 PM   #56
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Maybe I'm better off sticking to my old fashioned reliable generator.
I though you just bought it ?

I'll just get a generator baffle box to put it in, Where ?

it's quiet enough already so no one will hear it anyway. At 89 dba ?

I can run for 13 hours on 1 gallon of gas with unlimited power. Unlimited 700 watts ?

I don't have to worry about being left in the dark due to a lack of power Until the generator dies, then no power

I'll leave solar power to people who want to live by the skin of their teeth.

A well designed solar system, harvesting free energy, is much more reliable then the least expensive, 2 stroke, china built, generator on the market.

Other then that, I agree.

My mistake. The generator only puts out 49db. I tested it already. It is probably quieter than an electric pancake air compressor. Very quiet machine. Runs well. Good muffler system installed. What I meant by unlimited power is unlike a solar battery bank, I will have a unlimited supply of power as long as there is gas in the genny. A 25 foot class C with a turbo kool rv swamp cooler on the roof, doesn't have a lot of high drain electronic like bigger and more modern Motorhomes. The only things I run at night are the fridge which is 2.4 amps 200 watt, the furnace which only takes 1 amp of power to run on 12 volt blower motor, the 12 volt LED light in the bathroom, and the fresh water pump for an occasional trip to the bathroom during the night. I can run all that minus the fridge off of a fully charged 350 watt UPS for over an hour with no trouble. In fact I have successfully several times. Well it is true that a 2 stroke generator is more expensive to run than any solar system, your average solar generator is extremely expensive to buy. The gas generator costs less to run than your average utility bill. Plus when you dry camp, the rent is pretty close to being free. Places Like Oregon and Alaska and not to ideal for solar energy unless you get high on the moutain because they don't get much sun. The 2 stroke genny is reliable wherever you go. Even in places with no sunlight. You just need gas and 2 stroke oil, that's it. So the generator is enough of a power house for me.


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