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Old 07-07-2012, 09:08 PM   #57
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And, just because it was illegal does NOT mean the person is automatically liable. You STILL must go through the courts..
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:10 PM   #58
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You guys crack me up!
Living in AZ it is bone dry. When u make something illegal (like fireworks) you can hold these jackasses accountable for there stupid ILLEGAL actions. It is a safety issue.
Every single thing I posted is also a safety issue and kill thousands and or cost millions every year.. They should all be banned.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:47 PM   #59
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Now I agree to disagree, some folks are stupid but we can't outlaw their ability to have more kids. Drinking, etc.. So here are some pictures from my annual 4th of July display.
And yes I take precautions but also know they are no more dangerous than giving the kid next door the keys to my gun safe or my jet ski. (not gonna happen)
Now for those who don't have a display due to all of the excess laws being broken each year. Just enjoy!!! I can't upload them all- the display lasted 2 1/2 hours.
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:00 PM   #60
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oooohhhhh, aaaahhhhh, woooowwww, aaaaaaaaahhhh, oooooohhhh, aaaaaaaaaahhhhh.
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:04 PM   #61
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oooohhhhh, aaaahhhhh, woooowwww, aaaaaaaaahhhh, oooooohhhh, aaaaaaaaaahhhhh.
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:24 PM   #62
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Controlled, professionally run fireworks displays aren't the issue. It's the totally uncontrolled idiots that need to be restrained.

IMO, a law that prevent idiots with fireworks causing hundreds of thousands of dollars-worth of property damage is justifiable.

In the neighborhood we lived in before moving to Anacortes, five houses (out of 40) had serious fire damage when bottle rockets landed on their roofs in two years. Shortly after the last occurrence, the HOA requirement that roofs had to be cedar shakes was rescinded.

The big problem with "sue the bastards" is that doing so is ludicroously expensive, particularly if you can't find a lawyer who will work on a "no win, no fee" basis. You have a $40,000 loss, you win in court, you have to pay the lawyer $15K and the deadbeat that lost never pays you back, so you're out the original damage and another $15k besides.
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:27 PM   #63
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I did when Tony Stewart won.
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:30 PM   #64
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I did when Tony Stewart won.
Who is that? One of those guys that drives in circles? Seems like a waste of gas to me
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:40 PM   #65
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My family and I have used fireworks for years. We allow our children WITH proper supervision at a mature age to use them as well. We always take into account possible damage to our own home and vehicles. We live way out in the country so no close neighbors. If we caused damage we would pay because thats how we were raised. Making fireworks against the law is just taking away another right from me as far as I am concerned. I don't need someone telling me to use common sense and I and my family should not suffer because of idiots! Its just that plain and simple!
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:38 PM   #66
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Who is that? One of those guys that drives in circles? Seems like a waste of gas to me

Daytona Firecracker 400 tonight and they had the "big one"... 24 cars.
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:30 AM   #67
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Look at it another way. Let's say they pass a law outlawing bottle rockets. What's the penalty for setting off a bottle Rocket? $10? $20. This doesn't help the time when that fired off bottle rocket burns down a barn. The individual is still liable for the barn burning just as if he set it on fire with a match or cigarette. The fact that the bottle rocket was illegal is insignificant.

Just because what you are doing is LEGAL does not eliminate your liability in the event that you do harm. If it was legal to drink and drive and you ran over a child you would still be liable.

It's legal to own a baseball bat but illegal to bash your ex in the head with it.
Thanks for the response to one of my questions wildtoad. I thought I asked a number of good ones which have been ignored for some reason.

In response to your question about how much a theoretical fine should be for setting off a bottle rocket... your suggestion of $10 or $20 is off by at least an order of magnitude IMO. Don't pass laws with no teeth. Make the fine >$500. Something that says, "don't do this".

I'm not trying to be obstinate here, I'm really trying to understand an opposing point of view posted by those who seem to favor some degree of lesser "regulation" than we have now... and, to be fair, see much future "regulation" as a restriction of our freedoms.

I'm all for freedom, accountability and common sense. Help me understand how far folks who hold your point of view would like to see that carried. Where should the line be drawn between reliance on common sense and accountability... and where (if anywhere?) we should have laws?

If we don't have laws, are we all left on our own to hire lawyers and begin civil litigation... starting from scratch... and have to prove that the individual (or company) which harmed us just "didn't do the right thing"?

Frank points out the big problem with this approach and also refutes your statement that whether or not something is illegal is "insignificant":

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The big problem with "sue the bastards" is that doing so is ludicroously expensive, particularly if you can't find a lawyer who will work on a "no win, no fee" basis. You have a $40,000 loss, you win in court, you have to pay the lawyer $15K and the deadbeat that lost never pays you back, so you're out the original damage and another $15k besides.
If the perp had been cited/convicted of a crime causing this loss, it becomes much more straightforward to get a judgement.

Many of those opposed to "regulations/laws" in this discussion have indicated that laws are no "cure" for the problem because there will always be those who break the law. I don't think anyone suggested that laws were a "cure" ...and this is a red herring IMO. It's quite easy to criticize actions taken to address a problem... the challenge is to offer a better solution. So far, all I've heard is that we should all do a better job of raising our children and over a number of generations things will get better. Is that really it?

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Old 07-08-2012, 12:54 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Ragingbull
My family and I have used fireworks for years. We allow our children WITH proper supervision at a mature age to use them as well. We always take into account possible damage to our own home and vehicles. We live way out in the country so no close neighbors. If we caused damage we would pay because thats how we were raised. Making fireworks against the law is just taking away another right from me as far as I am concerned. I don't need someone telling me to use common sense and I and my family should not suffer because of idiots! Its just that plain and simple!
That's great you and your family do that. I don't know where the idea of making fireworks illegal came from. I think people just need to follow the law when a burn ban is in place. Especially in places like Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, etc.
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:08 AM   #69
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Controlled, professionally run fireworks displays aren't the issue. It's the totally uncontrolled idiots that need to be restrained.

IMO, a law that prevent idiots with fireworks causing hundreds of thousands of dollars-worth of property damage is justifiable.
Problems do happen with professional fireworks displays, this year San Diego. Also check out south west Austin and Great Falls this year for fires by professional displays. Most displays have the fire companies standing by. With budget cutbacks now let's just due away with the costs and do away with them all together.
There is a couple fires in the US started by camp fires each year, lets outlaw camp fires.

It is a good idea for children not to bring weapons to school. ( http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/20...ce-states.html )

http://www.ted.com/talks/philip_howard.html
Something about the overload of laws by a lawyer.

Suffice to say I stand against it.

Oh by the way on the EPA regulating green house gas emissions, people do realize everyone exhales CO2...... maybe they can prevent ...
Quote:
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Now I agree to disagree, some folks are stupid but we can't outlaw their ability to have more kids.
Oh it must be time to unsubscribe.....evidently I am getting old and crotchety...
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:28 AM   #70
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It's a know act that inhaling small amounts of oxygen, over a long period of time, causes death. Maybe we should make air illegal. The same can be said of swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time. Let's make salivary glands illegal.
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