Tiffin & Newmar say no more Microfiber products

[spsm]

Like Raments said, can not go wrong with those old T-shirts.

[GaryM2]

Hmmm . . . . I was afraid of this. I think I’ve opened Pandora’s Box – LOL. Let me preface my remarks with this. I said earlier that there’s a lot of smoke and mirrors in this industry and it’s true. If you decide to not believe what I’m saying, I won’t be offended. Please don’t be offended if I say something that goes against what you’ve believed. Maybe a brief story will help.

I was the Blue Coral Professional Products distributor in a major market. One of their best products was their paint sealant, advertised as ‘contains Teflon’. At a distributors meeting their chemist revealed that it actually contained just enough Teflon to satisfy the legal requirements of DuPont, but not enough to ruin the formula. You see, for Teflon to actually work it needs to be baked on at a temperature that’s never going to be achieved in practical application. So, why do they use it? Simple. Marketing! By advertising Teflon people buy the product. Blue Coral Paint Sealant is a terrific product, but not because of Teflon.

This discussion opened with a broad condemnation of microfiber that I felt was unfair. When it comes to polishing and/or waxing (two different processes) microfiber is terrific. When it comes to washing, you have to be careful. As I’ve said earlier, if the cloth drags contaminants across the surface you may indeed scratch that surface. Microfiber wash mitts are engineered to lessen that natural tendency. Microfiber cloths, not so much. A good quality wash mitt, microfiber or not, is a worthwhile investment.

Keep in mind, the process is a combination of chemical and mechanical. The soap you use makes a difference too. Unfortunately, most consumer grade automotive soap is designed to meet a price point. That nice thick soap you love? Well, it’s thick because they added salt to make it that way. Carnauba in the soap? Read the Teflon story again, and again.

Any wax that advertises straight Carnauba is marketing/lying. I’m telling you, Carnauba is as hard as a brick. There’s only one Carnauba, and if they’re using it they HAVE to add something to soften it. Those softeners are also cleaners. And if they’re putting it in the soap? Let’s hope not too much. Read the Teflon story again, and again.

With all that said, let’s move on. All of the companies mentioned make good, quality products. All I’m saying is judge the product by its performance, not by the marketing that got you to buy it. Be a scientist and analyze results without making up your mind first. Understand that there is no perfect solution. Get the best results, minimize the damage. That’s the best you can hope for.

For me? I wash my MH with a thick, soft brush on a pole. There’s no way I’m erecting scaffolding or climbing up a ladder. And, it HAS to be cleaned or the contaminants will start attacking the surface. I still have some professional grade soap and two capfuls are enough for a large bucket of warm water. I use plenty of it and will typically go through three large buckets to finish the job. And I rinse often as I do NOT want the soap drying.

As for wax, I use paint sealant. Paint sealant is nothing more than a synthetic wax like product. Wax, all of them, melts at a certain point, and that point is achieved on a really hot sunny day. Once it has been applied, and then has the surface melt, it no longer provides protection. Paint sealant avoids that.

There’s three steps to a great finish: Clean, Polish, Protect. Yes, I know about “One-Step” products, and yes, some of them are acceptable. Understand that to get the best finish you need to go through all three steps. Most of us are willing to compromise at some point but need to understand what we’re doing. I don’t always do what’s “best”. Hey, I’m human too!

And now, I must be some kind of masochist, a brief discussion on car washes because they’ve been mentioned. Believe it or not (you really can choose!), a good quality soft cloth car wash, not a “touchless”, is the best bet for your toad. The soft cloth used is actually like felt with a fairly hard surface. That cloth is engineered to NOT retain dirt particles and not unlike the bearings in your engine, with a good lubricating soap does not contact the paint. Under that Radio Shack magnifier, the paint has less scratches when washed in an automatic wash than when hand washed. I take my car and truck to the car wash all the time. I know, you really didn’t want to hear that. It’s OK, you can choose to ignore it. I will say, the caution here is that they must be using a high quality (read expensive) soap and if you’re looking for an excuse to keep hand washing, there it is.

If I destroyed some myths you really liked, I apologize. This is nothing compared to the re-education needed when we went from conventional paint to clear coat! I must have heard “hey, I’ve been doing this for thirty years, don’t tell me” a thousand times.

[bthomforde]

Are all clear coats the same?
The reason I ask is I had a 2008 Travel Supreme that I washed with The Solution and microfiber with very little swirling, we now have a 2012 Allegro Bus and using The Solution and microfiber there are plenty of swirl marks.
I just started using 100% cotton diapers and it worked well and doesn't seem to leave the swirl marks.
it leads me to believe, either the TS had a harder clear coat or a different brand that Tiffin uses.

[GaryM2]

There’s a huge difference in clear coats. All paints benefit from a good paint sealant, but if your new coach has one of the softer paints it would be even more important to have that done. If you decide to have it sealed, make sure it doesn’t get wet for the first 24 hours. Either store it inside the first night, or hopefully done in a dry climate. Here in Chicago, at this time of year, you wouldn’t want to leave it outside overnight as the dew would impact the sealant. Paint sealant can be a little finicky the first 24 hours, but after that will provide lasting benefits.

[Dutch Star Don]

After reading this post a couple of weeks ago, I went on the hunt for a REAL lambs wool brush. The dark paint on my 2014 Newmar has been showing very fine scratches, most likely caused by the brush I've been using.


I missed one of the first posts that talked about Mary Moppins products and couldn't find a lambs wool brush. A friend sent me a link to Mary Moppins Mary Moppins | Go Green With Mary Moppins and she has some nice products.

What I really liked was her lambs wool brush head that fits on a pole. Most of these heads that tilt and turn just don't work well when reaching up high. The heads want to turn and twist and you can't get any pressure on them. Hers has two tension screws that allow you to tighten up the pivot points.

Best part....after I ordered a pole and brush, (will order another and mitt once I check quality) I called the company to delay shipping a few days so it wouldn't arrive when I wasn't home. To my surprise, Mary answered and was already looking at my order. She is a wealth of knowledge and apparently met with Tiffin and Newmar to discuss the use of various cleaning products.

Mary Moppins is located in Eugene, Oregon and she works/ships out of her house. She told me to stop by any time to buy products and they'll even help wash my coach. Not to many companies doing business like this anymore!!

[RMD3819]

Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don

After reading this post a couple of weeks ago, I went on the hunt for a REAL lambs wool brush. The dark paint on my 2014 Newmar has been showing very fine scratches, most likely caused by the brush I've been using.


I missed one of the first posts that talked about Mary Moppins products and couldn't find a lambs wool brush. A friend sent me a link to Mary Moppins Mary Moppins | Go Green With Mary Moppins and she has some nice products.

What I really liked was her lambs wool brush head that fits on a pole. Most of these heads that tilt and turn just don't work well when reaching up high. The heads want to turn and twist and you can't get any pressure on them. Hers has two tension screws that allow you to tighten up the pivot points.

Best part....after I ordered a pole and brush, (will order another and mitt once I check quality) I called the company to delay shipping a few days so it wouldn't arrive when I wasn't home. To my surprise, Mary answered and was already looking at my order. She is a wealth of knowledge and apparently met with Tiffin and Newmar to discuss the use of various cleaning products.

Mary Moppins is located in Eugene, Oregon and she works/ships out of her house. She told me to stop by any time to buy products and they'll even help wash my coach. Not to many companies doing business like this anymore!!

I know this is from 2014 but how are the Mary Moppins products holding up? Do you use their soap?

[PanJH]

Originally Posted by RMD3819

I know this is from 2014 but how are the Mary Moppins products holding up? Do you use their soap?

On the advice from my Newmar owners manual, I bought Mary Moppins pads (2), head unit and pole in 2013 right after I bought the coach. I wash the coach at least 6 times a year and the Mary Moppins items continue to work as they did from the beginning.

[Gary RVRoamer]

Now that microfiber cloths have become cheap and ubiquitous, I suspect there are good and not-so-good brands, and some apparently scratch. I've used microfiber cloths for polishing for several years with no scratching at all (high end coach full body paint), but also like old cotton T-shirts and cotton socks (I save them up!). Also us MF with a spray bottle of white vinegar and water as a touch-up wash in a campground and have seen no scratching that way either. Maybe if I rubber harder?

In any case, I guess it bears watching to see if you are getting any noticeable scratching.

[harleyjt]

Originally Posted by Gary RVRoamer

Now that microfiber cloths have become cheap and ubiquitous, I suspect there are good and not-so-good brands, and some apparently scratch. I've used microfiber cloths for polishing for several years with no scratching at all (high end coach full body paint), but also like old cotton T-shirts and cotton socks (I save them up!). Also us MF with a spray bottle of white vinegar and water as a touch-up wash in a campground and have seen no scratching that way either. Maybe if I rubber harder?

In any case, I guess it bears watching to see if you are getting any noticeable scratching.

What is your mix on vinegar to water? I would be a little afraid that the vinegar would tend to strip any wax or sealer off.
jt

[Dutch Star Don]

The Mary Moppins pads and poles are still working well, I wish I could say the same for Newmar's clear coat. It's so thin, there is no keeping it looking nice. Finally, in 2017, they've kind of admitted their clear coat was problematic by offering the better finish on the Dutch Star. I think this whole lamb's wool thing was to prevent damage to their poor clear coat. You certainly don't need to use lamb's wool on new cars to prevent micro scratching.

With all that said, I washed the coach today. I use Meguiars car wash soap and another local brand from a detail shop that is suppose to wash and wax. I don't see any real difference. I CONSTANTLY have to wax my coach to try and keep it looking nice. My Monaco paint still looked shiny and "deep" after 10 years.

[britcon]

Just to muddy the waters a bit, Cotton material should be made in the US.
A lot of cotton fabric ( cheap t shirts ? ) comes from Egypt and India / Pakistan areas and contains impurities in the weave which can still scratch.

[Electra 225]

I started a thread a while back with no responses, so I'll ask here......has anyone tried Mckee's 37 products? I'm curious to know if they're good. They have a wide range of products taylored to RVs specifically, and I noticed in the TV add, the owner of the company featured his own Dutch Star. Any experiences with this brand McKee's 37?