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Old 12-25-2015, 08:44 AM   #57
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has anyone tried a "low reading" sensor on another tire? Maybe the valve in the tire stem isnt opening enough to get an accurate pressure?
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Old 12-26-2015, 06:51 AM   #58
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I tried that. I have two sensors in particular that read really low in the morning before we start rolling the wheels. The one gives a reading of 88 psi on a wheel @ 95 psi. The other gives a reading of 28 psi on a wheel @ 32 psi. Moving these sensors to different wheels produced the same results. Once the wheels are rolling and warmed up, these two sensors report about the same as the rest.

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Old 12-27-2015, 10:32 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by mbenson1234 View Post
Hello,

The sensors will be +/- 1.5 PSI. Gauges will read +/-3-5 PSI, using digital or analog. I am not sure why you received something stating a gauge will vary 5-10 PSI. I will check into this. Please call me with any questions. I am available until midnight 7 days a week at 770-889-9102

Thank you and Merry Christmas!!

Mike Benson
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Sorry Mike but I must take issue over what you have stated here. Blanket statements that, "Gauges will read +/-3-5 PSI, using digital or analog" is simply not correct.

Two digital Accutire gauges have topped the Consumer Reports Ratings, the MS-4400B and MS-4021B. The MS-4021B is my "standard" and is said to be accurate to within +/- 1% + 0.5 PSI, reading air pressure from 5-150 PSI in 0.5 pound increments. The accuracy of the MS-4021B when utilized with RV tires that range from 80 to 130 PSI is between +/- 1.3 and +/- 1.8 PSI. Other digital gauges I have found, like the Accu-Gage DT107 from G.H. Meiser & Co., are accurate to +/- 1 %. (+/- 1 PSI @ 100 PSI)

A 2 1/2" Dial Accu-Gage Inflator Tire Gauge (G.H. Meiser & Co.) has a mechanical accuracy rating of +/- 2% from 25% to 75% of scale and +/- 3% below 25% and above 75%. The 160 PSI Accu-Gage Inflator tire gauge has a calibrated accuracy of 2 PSI at 80 PSI.

My particular MS-4021B digital and AU-160 Accu-Gage Inflator gauges both agree at my 95 PSI RV tire inflate pressure.
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Old 12-28-2015, 10:35 AM   #60
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I just bought the 6 sensor TPMS and all 6 are 2 pounds less than what the tire actually has. From other posts, it appears I just have to do math in my head and add 2 to each readout for an accurate (or closer to accurate) PSI. Unfortunately that's not what I expected from this product. I had my digital tire gauge compared to ones in a tire store and it was dead on.

Suppose I should be happy that all 6 are consistently 2 pounds off.
Since this post, we took our truck and Airstream out for a week on the road. The first day the TPMS sensors were all over the place as far as accuracy was concerned. The high pressure warning kept going off and I realized I had not set the high pressure level high enough (20% over cold pressure). Next day I set the high and low pressure alert levels to 20% and 10% respectively, and for whatever reason, the sensors were all measuring the same PSI as my gauge. For the rest of the week the sensors reported same as my gauge. I'm very pleased for obvious reasons, but also because I was giving the product that week for me to make sure my issues weren't "operator error". I was ready to return the TPMS once I got home if it didn't get on track. Fortunately it did and it's a keeper!
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Old 12-28-2015, 04:59 PM   #61
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Here's my philosophy on how to set the min pressure limit. Most of us understand the importance of obtaining accurate weights for our tires and inflating the tires according to the manufacturers' load tables. On the other hand all our rigs come with a data plate that specifies the tire pressure based on the GAWR. Now, if you talk to your tire manufacturer they will tell you that the load tables they publish are important, and accurate based on their testing, they will also recommend that you inflate to the pressures indicated by the coach (or trailer) manufacturer.

So, I weighed my rig and determined the pressures needed based on that weight. That is what I set for the minimum pressure because if the pressure drops below that value then the tires are overloaded based on the tire manufacturer charts. I actually inflate the tires to the value specified on the data plate because that gives me a decent ride. The max value is set to the value molded into the tire sidewall because that is the maximum that the tire is rated for. Using those values I've never had a false alarm and the tires will never see pressures outside their design specs.
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Old 12-29-2015, 10:46 AM   #62
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Thanks for sharing!
Hope you have a Happy New Year!
Thanks,
Mike Benson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan_Hepburn View Post
Here's my philosophy on how to set the min pressure limit. Most of us understand the importance of obtaining accurate weights for our tires and inflating the tires according to the manufacturers' load tables. On the other hand all our rigs come with a data plate that specifies the tire pressure based on the GAWR. Now, if you talk to your tire manufacturer they will tell you that the load tables they publish are important, and accurate based on their testing, they will also recommend that you inflate to the pressures indicated by the coach (or trailer) manufacturer.

So, I weighed my rig and determined the pressures needed based on that weight. That is what I set for the minimum pressure because if the pressure drops below that value then the tires are overloaded based on the tire manufacturer charts. I actually inflate the tires to the value specified on the data plate because that gives me a decent ride. The max value is set to the value molded into the tire sidewall because that is the maximum that the tire is rated for. Using those values I've never had a false alarm and the tires will never see pressures outside their design specs.
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Old 12-29-2015, 11:22 AM   #63
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I did a moderately long blog post on TPMS and pressure settings.

What readings should I see from my TPMS?

This might provide a better understanding of a good way to establish settings for your TPMS.


For those that don't want to bother to read my blog post I can offer the following:

"Remember, TPMS are primarily designed to warn of a loss of pressure, not to be a substitute for hand pressure gauges."
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Old 12-29-2015, 11:36 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Alan_Hepburn View Post
Here's my philosophy on how to set the min pressure limit. Most of us understand the importance of obtaining accurate weights for our tires and inflating the tires according to the manufacturers' load tables. On the other hand all our rigs come with a data plate that specifies the tire pressure based on the GAWR. Now, if you talk to your tire manufacturer they will tell you that the load tables they publish are important, and accurate based on their testing, they will also recommend that you inflate to the pressures indicated by the coach (or trailer) manufacturer.

So, I weighed my rig and determined the pressures needed based on that weight. That is what I set for the minimum pressure because if the pressure drops below that value then the tires are overloaded based on the tire manufacturer charts. I actually inflate the tires to the value specified on the data plate because that gives me a decent ride. The max value is set to the value molded into the tire sidewall because that is the maximum that the tire is rated for. Using those values I've never had a false alarm and the tires will never see pressures outside their design specs.
Reasonably good plan. One comment.
The pressure molded on the tire sidewall is not the Max operating pressure but is the pressure needed to carry the max load for that tire (also molded on the tire sidewall)
Hot pressure will normally be +10 to + 25 psi above the Cold Inflation Pressure.

I would be much more concerned with the minimum inflation pressure warning level and your suggestion of the pressure needed to support the actual individual tire load is the approach I use.
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Old 12-30-2015, 12:26 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Alan_Hepburn View Post
Here's my philosophy on how to set the min pressure limit. Most of us understand the importance of obtaining accurate weights for our tires and inflating the tires according to the manufacturers' load tables. On the other hand all our rigs come with a data plate that specifies the tire pressure based on the GAWR. Now, if you talk to your tire manufacturer they will tell you that the load tables they publish are important, and accurate based on their testing, they will also recommend that you inflate to the pressures indicated by the coach (or trailer) manufacturer.

So, I weighed my rig and determined the pressures needed based on that weight. That is what I set for the minimum pressure because if the pressure drops below that value then the tires are overloaded based on the tire manufacturer charts. I actually inflate the tires to the value specified on the data plate because that gives me a decent ride. The max value is set to the value molded into the tire sidewall because that is the maximum that the tire is rated for. Using those values I've never had a false alarm and the tires will never see pressures outside their design specs.
I think you need to review your statement, "On the other hand all our rigs come with a data plate that specifies the tire pressure based on the GAWR." Actually, the recommended tire preasure on the coach data plate is based on GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). The tires are inflated on the basis of the distributed load at each wheel/tire. However, all tires on a given axle should be inflated to the pressure needed to support the heaviest loaded wheel/tire on that axle. And, if you exceed the rated cargo capacity of the coach, you may need to adjust tire pressure accordingly.

Weighing the coach is your best bet to getting it right. And, I bet that most of us are running overloaded. That would mean the recommended tire pressure of the coach manufacturer may no longer be valid for the coach.

Your stated observation, "I actually inflate the tires to the value specified on the data plate because that gives me a decent ride" supports a dirty little secret of the RV industry. If you check the coach manufacturer recommended tire pressure against the maximum load cold sidewall tire pressure, it is typically less in order to carry the load and give a better ride. Inversely, travel trailer "ST" tires are always recommended to be inflated to the maximum load cold sidewall tire pressure to carry the load and nobody is supposed to be in the trailer anyway.

I think you will be best served if you stick with setting your TPMS alarm points at +20% to 25% and -10% of your cold inflation pressure.
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Old 12-30-2015, 03:46 PM   #66
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I think you (Alan_Hepburn) need to review your statement (see post #51) , "On the other hand all our rigs come with a data plate that specifies the tire pressure based on the GAWR." Actually, the recommended tire preasure on the coach data plate is based on GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). The tires are inflated on the basis of the distributed load at each wheel/tire. However, all tires on a given axle should be inflated to the pressure needed to support the heaviest loaded wheel/tire on that axle. And, if you exceed the rated cargo capacity of the coach, you may need to adjust tire pressure accordingly.

Weighing the coach is your best bet to getting it right. And, I bet that most of us are running overloaded. That would mean the recommended tire pressure of the coach manufacturer may no longer be valid for the coach.

Your stated observation, "I actually inflate the tires to the value specified on the data plate because that gives me a decent ride" supports a dirty little secret of the RV industry. If you check the coach manufacturer recommended tire pressure against the maximum load cold sidewall tire pressure, it is typically less in order to carry the load and give a better ride. Inversely, travel trailer "ST" tires are always recommended to be inflated to the maximum load cold sidewall tire pressure to carry the load and nobody is supposed to be in the trailer anyway.

I think you will be best served if you stick with setting your TPMS alarm points at +20% to 25% and -10% of your cold inflation pressure.
Sorry Jeff, I do not agree that the low pressure warning should be at -10%. This means you could travel many miles with the tires in overload condition. Doing so can result in irreparable damage and weakening of the basic tire structure and possibly to early failure.

Given that this thread is under the "Motorhome" identification so introducing St type tires and the idea of a balanced axle load (both the same) while appropriate for trailers will just cause confusion for some MH owners.

Federal regulations require that the total load capacity for the tires on any given axle be equal to or exceed the GAWR (trailers or motorhomes). I find no reference to GVWR when selecting tire inflation/load capacity. If you can identify the section of CFR 571 that you are referencing for your information I would be interested in reviewing it.

You were correct when you said "all tires on a given axle should be inflated to the pressure needed to support the heaviest loaded wheel/tire on that axle"

Your statement " if you exceed the rated cargo capacity of the coach, you may need to adjust tire pressure accordingly." may be correct but IMO in many or more likely in most cases in the RV market the tire load capacity is the "weakest link" and the tires delivered by the RV manufacturer are already at their max load capacity so if you discover you have exceeded the cargo load capacity of your RV, your only viable option is to reduce your load by removing cargo.
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:46 PM   #67
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Sorry Jeff, I do not agree that the low pressure warning should be at -10%. This means you could travel many miles with the tires in overload condition. Doing so can result in irreparable damage and weakening of the basic tire structure and possibly to early failure.

Given that this thread is under the "Motorhome" identification so introducing St type tires and the idea of a balanced axle load (both the same) while appropriate for trailers will just cause confusion for some MH owners.

Federal regulations require that the total load capacity for the tires on any given axle be equal to or exceed the GAWR (trailers or motorhomes). I find no reference to GVWR when selecting tire inflation/load capacity. If you can identify the section of CFR 571 that you are referencing for your information I would be interested in reviewing it.

You were correct when you said "all tires on a given axle should be inflated to the pressure needed to support the heaviest loaded wheel/tire on that axle"

Your statement " if you exceed the rated cargo capacity of the coach, you may need to adjust tire pressure accordingly." may be correct but IMO in many or more likely in most cases in the RV market the tire load capacity is the "weakest link" and the tires delivered by the RV manufacturer are already at their max load capacity so if you discover you have exceeded the cargo load capacity of your RV, your only viable option is to reduce your load by removing cargo.
Good discussion Tireman9

The -10% rule, as recommended by TST and many others, is so you have time to pull off the highway to check out the problem. If you chose to keep going, thats on you. And, the loss of 10% of a cold inflate of 95 PSI equates to only a 285 pound loss of load carrying capacity.

Also, you may be missing that GAWR is only a maximum "rating", that cannot be changed. It is the maximum allowable limit determined by the manufacturer in the design of the vehicle. Actual tire loading at or less than GVWR is the comparison maximum; based on GVW (actual Gross Vehicle Weight) which should be determined by weighing the vehicle with its cargo load.

To state, "if you discover you have exceeded the cargo load capacity of your RV, your only viable option is to reduce your load by removing cargo" is not correct in my opinion. I think reducing load by removing cargo may actually be the least viable option. People want what people want. So, we find a way to deal with the load factor we have. Re-airing is the simplest option. Example: my delivered Michelin 235/R8022.5G tires have a cold inflation maximum of 110 PSI (4675/4410), but I only inflate to 95 PSI (4300/3970) because my weighed GVW is front axle 7260 and rear axle 15080 lbs. Thats only 340 lbs. more than my GVWR of 22000. And, I have a tire loading safety factor of +2140 lbs. (Max. Tire Load Capability @ 95 PSI - GVW). I'd say I have room for a little more air if needed.

Another viable option, though not always possible, might be to upgrade the tires from say "G" (110 PSI) to "H" (120 PSI) rated tires to gain added load carrying capacity.
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Old 12-31-2015, 12:46 PM   #68
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If you ever get in an accident, some lawyer is gonna "love" "That's only 340 lbs more than my GVRW of 22,000"
just sayin'
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Old 12-31-2015, 03:26 PM   #69
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Good discussion Tireman9

The -10% rule, as recommended by TST and many others, is so you have time to pull off the highway to check out the problem. If you chose to keep going, thats on you. And, the loss of 10% of a cold inflate of 95 PSI equates to only a 285 pound loss of load carrying capacity.

Also, you may be missing that GAWR is only a maximum "rating", that cannot be changed. It is the maximum allowable limit determined by the manufacturer in the design of the vehicle. Actual tire loading at or less than GVWR is the comparison maximum; based on GVW (actual Gross Vehicle Weight) which should be determined by weighing the vehicle with its cargo load.

To state, "if you discover you have exceeded the cargo load capacity of your RV, your only viable option is to reduce your load by removing cargo" is not correct in my opinion. I think reducing load by removing cargo may actually be the least viable option. People want what people want. So, we find a way to deal with the load factor we have. Re-airing is the simplest option. Example: my delivered Michelin 235/R8022.5G tires have a cold inflation maximum of 110 PSI (4675/4410), but I only inflate to 95 PSI (4300/3970) because my weighed GVW is front axle 7260 and rear axle 15080 lbs. Thats only 340 lbs. more than my GVWR of 22000. And, I have a tire loading safety factor of +2140 lbs. (Max. Tire Load Capability @ 95 PSI - GVW). I'd say I have room for a little more air if needed.

Another viable option, though not always possible, might be to upgrade the tires from say "G" (110 PSI) to "H" (120 PSI) rated tires to gain added load carrying capacity.
I interpret the -10% as meaning 10% below the set point pressure. Have to wonder how TST and "the others" arrive at their recommendation for establishing the cold set point. Who knows, maybe they read my blog

While GVW is a number that can be calculated, I and others are more concerned with avoiding component failures hence the invention and wide spread use of TPMS.. One component that fails all too often in RV application are tires. Measurements of tens of thousands of RVs over the years by RVSEF and similar RV weighing organizations shows that the majority have one or more tire and/or axle in overload. Many of these tires are in overload because the tire is under-inflated which is a condition a TPMS can warn the RV owner if the TPM is properly set-up.
Overloading a tire is certainly a contributor to accelerated aging and may lead to what might otherwise be an unexplained failure. Due to axle to axle imbalance as well as side to side load variation GVW is of no value in learning the individual axle or tire load. The only way to know the actual load on a tire is individual tire position weighing. Once that load is know only then can the Load/Inflation tables be used to learn the minimum inflation needed for the tires on each axle.

You are lucky that you know your individual tire loads, although you didn't provide those numbers as you seem to feel GVW is more important than individual axle or tire loads. IMO using the GVW designation may confuse some as it is nothing more than the sum of the individual corner weights. Knowing only the total does not allow you to know the more important individual tire loads.
You are also lucky as you apparently have a margin on loading but there are other RV owners that do not have a margin.

You are correct that making changes in tire size, cold inflation and / or Load Range are some of the ways to address tire overload but those changes really belongs in a different thread and not a thread on TPMS.
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Old 12-31-2015, 10:00 PM   #70
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I think you need to review your statement, "On the other hand all our rigs come with a data plate that specifies the tire pressure based on the GAWR." Actually, the recommended tire preasure on the coach data plate is based on GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating).
I have to disagree with this statement. If the data plate is based on GVWR then the pressure would be the same for front and rear axles - that's not the case. Every data plate I've seen shows a different pressure for the front, rear, and tag axle (if so equipped).

Quote:
And, if you exceed the rated cargo capacity of the coach, you may need to adjust tire pressure accordingly.
The rated cargo capacity is a nebulous number seemingly pulled out of the air by the manufacturers. They will (sometimes) weigh a sample of a particular model at some point near the end of the assembly line, but definitely before they add any options, and before things like batteries, fluids, and things like bed covers, window treatments, etc. are installed. Then they'll add the common options that the average consumer wants. Once it gets to the dealer they'll add things like house batteries, all the dealer-installed options (ladders, awnings, etc. are often dealer installed) and put some fuel in the tanks. Then the customer buys the unit and will add a few tools and stuff, which is when the cargo capacity is brought into the world. I'd love to see the dealer provide a certified 4-corner weight sheet for each unit sold, dated the day of delivery to the customer. That way the customer can compare the ACTUAL weights with the GAWR and GVWR to see EXACTLY what the cargo capacity works out to.

Quote:
Your stated observation, "I actually inflate the tires to the value specified on the data plate because that gives me a decent ride" supports a dirty little secret of the RV industry. If you check the coach manufacturer recommended tire pressure against the maximum load cold sidewall tire pressure, it is typically less in order to carry the load and give a better ride.
The pressures recommended on the data plate in MY coach are 95 psi on the steer axle, and 90 psi on the drive axle - according to the tire manufacturer's load and inflation table those values cross over to the GAWR for the steer and drive axles. Since the manufacturer has absolutely NO idea how the coach is going to be loaded the only weights they can go by are the axle ratings. Based on my 4-corner weights I can be safely running 75 psi on the steer axle and 70 psi on the drive axle - I confirmed those numbers with the manufacturer's table, and with an email to the manufacturer's customer service department. The manufacturer agreed that those numbers were valid, but they still recommended using the coach manufacturer's numbers. Based on my "seat of the pants" experience the ride is better using the higher numbers, so that's what I use.

Quote:
I think you will be best served if you stick with setting your TPMS alarm points at +20% to 25% and -10% of your cold inflation pressure.
Your percentages may very well be adequate figures - it's the starting point that is in question. In my case, using my steer axle for example, I start the day at 95 psi. If I set the min for -10% then I'll get an alarm if the pressure drops to 85 psi. We did a trip this year where we saw morning temperatures anywhere from 70 degrees to 20 degrees. There were some cold mornings that the front tires dropped below that 85 psi limit - I'd have to adjust the limit every day to keep from getting "false" alarms. By setting my min at the 75 psi that is based on the ACTUAL weight carried by the tires I knew that so long as the cold tires were above that value then they would be good all day, as they warmed up. After running at freeway speeds for 4 or 5 hours we never saw the pressure rise more than 15 psi so the max limit COULD be safely set anywhere from +10% to +20% - unless you're running at the sidewall pressure already then the max limit is not as critical.
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