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Old 09-18-2012, 11:21 AM   #15
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It's a HARD freeze you're concerned most about I believe. That's when you see the damage occur? I wouldn't worry too much about 25-30 degree overnight temps. Even if you did freeze a water line, the water needs to get cold enough to expand enough to actually burst something prior to it being a real issue. That's going to take a little more serious cold than what you're talking about I think?

I live in SE Mi and generally don't worry too much until after mid Nov. at the earliest. Then, I keep a pretty close eye on the weather. Worst case, if you're set up properly, it only takes a few minutes to winterize?
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:43 AM   #16
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:45 PM   #17
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Again, there's some great info being offered here.

It appears to provide 50% of the people telling me to not worry about it, and there's 50% of the people saying to just winterize it at my convenience.

It all depends on that weeks weather in Ontario, New York, and Pennsylvania (late Oct/early Nov)

My issue is that the pipes pass behind the shower and I have no way to insulate it, or to heat that area in order not to have a freeze occur.

If it is 25 degrees during the night outside, I would imagine that behind the shower it would eventually become 25 degrees there also... :(

Does leaving the water pump off and the faucets open help to not bust pipes?

On the left hand, just pump Pink through the lines, and on the right hand, run the propane furnace to 60 degrees at night should a cold snap occur.

Decisions, decisions.....
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:31 PM   #18
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It takes a couple of hours to freeze pipes at 25-30F. You prolly wont see those temps in Oct/Nov for more than 1-2 hours a night, and then not every night. I wouldnt worry about it. Especially if you are living in it with heat heat soaking the walls.
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:46 PM   #19
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Hey Canadian Mist would work, just don't get pulled over for a tail light out...you might get to walk the line if you just took a shower. Blow out is best follow with a bit of Afrz to the pump, traps, and Htanks. There should be an access to the area behind the shower somewhere, try a small battery powered fan or 12v fan (you see these on dashes in trucks available at major truck stops) or better yet 12 muffin fan (used in computers) may need to cut a hole some where for access.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:59 PM   #20
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If you turned up the thermostat a few degrees in the RV, the heat leaving through the walls will probably keep everything flowing. The plastic pipe won't usually split anyway, it stretches to allow for the ice expansion, IF the water freezes. If you are at a campground with full hookup, leaving the faucets running at a slow rate will assure no freezing will happen -- as long as you have the slinky hooked up and the grey tank valve open. You could also place a ceramic heater under the rig, blowing under the tanks and plumbing to keep warmth there. If it's real cold, tape a plastic skirt around the bottom to keep the heat contained.
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:36 PM   #21
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I take it you don't have a generator for power,otherwise an electric blanket or heating pads under the coach would keep all compartments warm.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:05 PM   #22
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The grey lines shouldn't hold enough water to freeze, except in the traps, and there's expansion room at both ends.

An old trick for leaving the house unoccupied in deep freeze areas - leave the cabinets and other access doors open so the furnace heat doesn't have to work to get to the plumbing.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:35 PM   #23
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I don't know how long it takes to freeze those PVC water pipes in areas where there is limited insulation? Does it take 8 hours, or if it dips to 25-30 degrees during the night can I get away with it.
If the temps get above freezing during the day and only get to 25-30 at night I wouldn't worry about it.
We try to use ours when ever we can so I just keep heat in the wet bay (100W light bulb) a 1500W heater and a few fans inside with the cabinet doors open. For our moderate winters here that works just fine and has for 50 years now.
I did buy a couple 200W personal heaters at WM and a cold activated switch to try this winter in the wet bay rather than leaving the 100W light on all the time.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:38 PM   #24
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As some have mentioned here, the grey water lines won't freeze from a couple hours of 25-30 degrees. But what about if it's below 32 for 8 hours, can that freeze pipes on the other side of a thin fiberglass wall? Since I am overnighting in Walmarts or Truck Stops, my propane furnace would keep the interior RV temp at @ 55-60 during my sleeping.

The major problem that I can see is that there are some areas where the pipes are uninsulated and pass in unaccessible next to the rear end cap of the RV. The only protection from the elements or freezing outdoor temps is a 1/8" layer of fiberglass.

My destination is Florida, but I plan to be in the NY, PA, VA and Ontario Canada for @ 1 week in late Oct/early Nov and I see from weather history that temps are often 25-35 degrees at night.

Part of me thinks that it would be easier to just travel with the system winterized. And once I get down to NC or SC I can flush out the pink stuff.

How does the "wind chill factor" work at night in relationship to freezing water pipes etc...?

IAN...
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:26 PM   #25
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The plastic pipe won't usually split anyway, it stretches to allow for the ice expansion, IF the water freezes.
Tell that to those it's happened to and they've had to replace the pipes. Happens every year when the spring thaw happens and people try to use their rig.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:56 AM   #26
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wind chill is an evaporative cooling effect due to moisture on skin. It doesn't affect inanimate objects once dry to the airflow.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:18 AM   #27
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As some have mentioned here, the grey water lines won't freeze from a couple hours of 25-30 degrees. But what about if it's below 32 for 8 hours, can that freeze pipes on the other side of a thin fiberglass wall? Since I am overnighting in Walmarts or Truck Stops, my propane furnace would keep the interior RV temp at @ 55-60 during my sleeping.

The major problem that I can see is that there are some areas where the pipes are uninsulated and pass in unaccessible next to the rear end cap of the RV. The only protection from the elements or freezing outdoor temps is a 1/8" layer of fiberglass.

My destination is Florida, but I plan to be in the NY, PA, VA and Ontario Canada for @ 1 week in late Oct/early Nov and I see from weather history that temps are often 25-35 degrees at night.

Part of me thinks that it would be easier to just travel with the system winterized. And once I get down to NC or SC I can flush out the pink stuff.

How does the "wind chill factor" work at night in relationship to freezing water pipes etc...?

IAN...
i installed 3 wired indoor-outdoor temperature gauges in my wet areas. i should have used wireless.
i found that my aft water service compartment is the only compartment that needs supplemental heat and that a 100w lightbulb in a drop cord trouble light warms that compartment adequately.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:36 AM   #28
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wind chill is an evaporative cooling effect due to moisture on skin. It doesn't affect inanimate objects once dry to the airflow.
Yes, true to a certain extent but it also considers the effect of wind pushing away warmer air and replacing it with cold air. Have two bits of red hot metal and let one sit and blow dry air on the other. One stays hot a lot longer. Wrap yourself - naked - in plastic wrap and stand in a blast of freezing dry air, vs standing wrapped in still cold air.
Very few underbellies are hermetically sealed and wind can always get in somewhere, especially so if travelling in subzero weather. Very few motorhomes are truly sub-zero rated.

We had to sit for a night in a carpark in snow near Stuttgart in our Hobby which is as close as you can get to winter rated. It wasn't all that cold - about 8C below zero - but a full grey tank (100L) exposed to the weather froze solid. That was expected, but I didn't expect to lose fresh water because it was all inside and heated. Turned out a 2' length of the pump suction line ran past the fibreglass wheel arch, pressed hard up against the uninsulated sheet. It froze, and there was no way to get it unfrozen in the cold weather so I had to dismantle part of the kitchen cupboard to reroute the pipe and add insulation to the wheel arch.
Pipes might be slow(ish) to freeze, but once they are frozen, they can stay frozen for a very long time.
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