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Old 02-07-2015, 01:43 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Mike and Cha View Post
so now it's our time to splurge on ourselves. And we can't take it with us so whatever is left our kids are going to get, along with one great New MH. That's what's great about living in a free country, people get to make choices and then live with them. And nobody should worry about choices other people make unless it directly affects them.
Kind of our decision too, leave the annuities intact and give them away to charity when we go, or spend it now and enjoy what we want!
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Old 02-07-2015, 10:44 AM   #212
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We have read this thread with interest over the last two years. New vs used was never a consideration for us. We just wanted an RV that met our use criteria and our budget. We ended up with our coach after 2 years of shopping mostly used MH's and TT's. While looking at yet another used RV, we decided to look at a new MH on the lot in our price point and it was perfect. We immediately felt at home, it had everything we wanted, met our price point and met every "must have/be" on our list. Isn't that what buying an RV is about?

Did we have issues? You bet. Do we like dealing with the dealers/manufacturers reps? No. Would we have issues with any one of the used rigs we looked at? Probably. Buying, using, maintaining and repairing an RV is unlike doing the same for anything else, we've discovered. Would we do it again? If we do, we'd follow the same process and find the one that meets our use criteria and our price point, new or used.
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Old 02-07-2015, 11:02 AM   #213
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Rather than endless posts justifying why you purchased New.....isn't the simple question something along the lines of...If you could have a New 2015 Dutch Star for $350k or a Used 2010 King Aire for $350k ....which would you choose?

* Please.....No need to debate the numbers....just insert $ and brands you like better. It's the concept not the math! Comparing New vrs Used of similar models misses the point where the "used" crowd is arguing that they would forgo "newness" for higher quality....at the same price point.

Once you answer this simple question ....can't you now honestly say whether or not the depreciation on a New purchase is worth it to you.

If you want me to ignore the math, then the question can't be answered. There is no Dutch Star that cost $350,000 when bought new. Even with every option checked.

Because no new buyer is paying full MSRP. We're getting 26-30% off MSRP.

The new Dutch Star (-26%) would only be $259,000 and that would be the one I bought.

Because they will customize the floor plan to how we want it. The used King Aire, by the time we paid for customizing, would cost $100,000 more. The only things that $100,000 would be buying is: Spartan K3GT chassis, ISX engine and Allison 4000 transmission. Which are all awesome, but not necessary for how I use my coach.


I hope I answered your question correctly.
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Old 02-07-2015, 11:07 AM   #214
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They are beautiful, shiny, state of the art machines, and New. However my financial advisor keeps telling me, there is absolutely no worse investment than buying a new RV.

But there is more to life than money right? (Well, maybe not if you're a financial advisor.)

Anyway, if you signed the paper and drove off the lot in your shiny new dream RV, while your net worth took a plunge, please let us know whether, looking back at it:

Was buying the new RV worth the depreciation, and why?

James
All of the threads on this topic deal with the core values and sensibilites of the buyer. Purchase what fits your eye and makes you feel good for whatever reason. End of story.

The original post is above and quite sensible. I would disagree with the financial advisor if he had recommended buying and holding Bre-ex, Enron or NorTel.

It gets personal and old really quickly when words like stupid or dumb are used. Whoever uses those words are suggesting indirectly that those who buy new are somehow deficient in their decision making process.

They are not, they are simply making different decisions. Sort of like what kind of beer do you drink (no name, name brand, premium, imported)?

No matter what our comfort level determines we are all out their camping and enjoying whatever rig we have purchased.
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Old 02-07-2015, 12:49 PM   #215
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I hope I answered your question correctly.

At the risk of being dragged further into the quagmire of this thread ......my interpretation of the OP's original question was.....Does the benefit of buying "new" justify the savage depreciation that usually also accompanies new RV purchases?.....OR....is it better (for the same $) to consider "used" and take advantage of a higher quality coach? I know, I know ......both will continue to depreciate ....and regardless...... according to Mike I have completely misunderstood the OP's question anyway!

I tried to make it clear that my example of the Newmar products was JUST an example, not meant to be taken literally, not meant to be endlessly dissected ....just an illustration of the concept I was trying to communicate (clearly a very poor illustration and clumsy effort). Plug-in what ever numbers and whatever brand works for you as long as you compare a new unit against a higher category ($$) used product....so there is some sort of tangible trade-off or cost/benefit decision to be made between new vrs used.

So...No....getting into the minutia of the specific math of specific models and whether or not anyone pays MSRP or whether you know the Dealer or if your financial advisor approves of the decision or if you have endless financial resources and have paid for your kids college education and it is now time to quit compromising or what you would pay for a Dutch Star and how you would want to customize a King Aire....does kinda miss the point of my question.....but who really cares!

Mike is correct that I am pretty much clueless about what is being discussed here and thank-you for your insight into the fact that my ability to communicate a coherent thought also pretty much sucks. My bad, my apologies....please carry-on and try to forget that I got involved and stuck my foot squarely in my mouth.
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Old 02-07-2015, 12:57 PM   #216
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For me it was. If I were going to invest, the last thing I would buy is a depreciating asset, like an rv. RV purchase money is, to us, spending money - we never expect it back. We also decided a few years ago that we would buy only new stuff whenever possible. We were frugal all our lives and for DW and I it is now time to reap the rewards of that frugality.
good for you
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Old 02-07-2015, 01:23 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by ChileRick View Post
We have read this thread with interest over the last two years. New vs used was never a consideration for us. We just wanted an RV that met our use criteria and our budget. We ended up with our coach after 2 years of shopping mostly used MH's and TT's. While looking at yet another used RV, we decided to look at a new MH on the lot in our price point and it was perfect. We immediately felt at home, it had everything we wanted, met our price point and met every "must have/be" on our list. Isn't that what buying an RV is about?

Did we have issues? You bet. Do we like dealing with the dealers/manufacturers reps? No. Would we have issues with any one of the used rigs we looked at? Probably. Buying, using, maintaining and repairing an RV is unlike doing the same for anything else, we've discovered. Would we do it again? If we do, we'd follow the same process and find the one that meets our use criteria and our price point, new or used.
While the quoted post doesn't provide a direct answer to the OP, I feel it's the best written, most informative, and addresses the underlying new vs used issue better than any other on this thread. However, it will be difficult for those that post the requisite ego stroking and justification replies (from both sides) to disagree with ChileRick.
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Old 02-07-2015, 01:25 PM   #218
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Mike is correct that I am pretty much clueless about what is being discussed here and thank-you for your insight into the fact that my ability to communicate a coherent thought also pretty much sucks. My bad, my apologies....please carry-on and try to forget that I got involved and stuck my foot squarely in my mouth.
Jack, I don't know if this is just what happens when you read something printed in an email form vs being able to talk to someone in person, so I'm not sure if you are being serious or facetious. But you seem to add in a lot to what is actually being written/asked. I would guess that you are just a really nice guy that enjoys RV'ing like the rest of us, and a lot is lost in the translation here. But all I did was answer your question, and never made any of those comments about you being "clueless" or "your ability to communicate sucks", so I hope you didn't take it that way. We are all in this RV hobby together whether we bought new or used..Mike
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Old 02-07-2015, 01:42 PM   #219
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Mike is correct that I am pretty much clueless about what is being discussed here and thank-you for your insight into the fact that my ability to communicate a coherent thought also pretty much sucks. My bad, my apologies....please carry-on and try to forget that I got involved and stuck my foot squarely in my mouth.

I will neither call you clueless nor ignorant, but should we find ourselves together in the same RV park, call you friend and offer you a drink of choice.


It will, without question, be a new drinking!!!
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Old 02-07-2015, 01:43 PM   #220
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Was buying your brand new RV worth the depreciation?

I treat the cost of an RV as a standard financial spreadsheet item called "Sunk Costs".
SCs are funds that are totally tied up, with little or no chance of any recovery. They are not invested, but are there, just not toucheable until the asset is divested.
There will always be some value left in my RV, but I don't think about it until time to sell or trade.
In our lives, we have times of asset gathering (investiture) and then we divest some (S&B etc).
We are reaping what we sowed. Simple as that. Did I mention it is a total freekin blast?
May the Journey be Your Destination!


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Old 02-08-2015, 07:23 AM   #221
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I treat the cost of an RV as a standard financial spreadsheet item called "Sunk Costs".
SCs are funds that are totally tied up, with little or no chance of any recovery. They are not invested, but are there, just not toucheable until the asset is divested.
There will always be some value left in my RV, but I don't think about it until time to sell or trade.
In our lives, we have times of asset gathering (investiture) and then we divest some (S&B etc).
We are reaping what we sowed. Simple as that. Did I mention it is a total freekin blast?
May the Journey be Your Destination!


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Old 02-08-2015, 11:30 AM   #222
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Was buying your brand new RV worth the depreciation?

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Twelvevolt, I didn't take offense but you did somewhat miss my point, and no my wife didn't smile and nod at me(that's actually more offensive then what you think about new vs used). She actually wonders why I even care what others do or buy as we did what we wanted and bought what we wanted. We wanted certain things and didn't want to buy someone elses problems or a MH that had been lived in. I just think that when others have to make snide remarks about new owners just to justify buying used, that's not real classy. You don't see new owners making disrespectful remarks to people who bought used for a wide variety of reasons.

The biggest point you missed is I actually bought mine for $3000 less than two used ones we looked at that had about 10,000 miles on them and the older body style, as well as less equipment and smaller chassis. The dealers both basically said that not everyone will do their homework like us and they would not lower the price as someone would pay the price and assume they got a good deal just based on the MSRP's of the new ones. I know what my dealer made as he is the owner and actually showed me his invoice and what he paid, so I was glad to go with the new one. And I'm sure some of you will say I'm stupid for trusting my Dealer, but I would bet his honesty and integrity against any other person, dealer or not, for a lot of reasons, and what we have experienced with him as well as friends we have referred to him. But like others we wanted something new anyway, we could easily afford it, and didn't have to settle for something that wasn't everything we wanted.

When it comes to depreciation, I'm not worried about it for several reasons, one being I will not see the depreciation as I won't be selling it, and I'm positive if I had bought one of the used ones the depreciation would be even worse. To be realistic if you buy a MH worrying about depreciation then maybe you shouldn't be buying one. Also if I was looking for a used MH I would spend more money buying it from the original owner than I would the second, third or fourth owner, I think that will affect the depreciation even more, but I forgot used MH's don't depreciate.

I probably should ignore this, but since you addressed it to me I will respond.

Here is how couples sometimes choose to interact in the buying process. The smile means "I am willing to suspend disbelief and ignore the rules of logic and finance". Similar to watching a sci-fi movie, where we agree to not ask why the crew is able to land on distant planets, breathe the air, survive the temperatures wearing only spandex, and communicate with the locals in English. The nod means "Lets go ahead with the deal because one or both of us really wants this". How you managed to link your wife's smile to 'offensive' is a mystery better addressed in another forum or web site. I suppose if you are reading to find negativity, you will be successful.

Disagree with me and I will label you. A tried and proven strategy. Certainly none of us want to risk a low score on the Mike and Cha classy meter. Well played. I think we can all agree to smile and acknowledge that your coach will not depreciate.

Also worth a smile is any statement that begins with "The dealer said ...". Manufacturers do not suggest the retail price of their used products. What salesmen often refer to as the MSRP is really the DSRP, which is even more fanciful than the MSRP. I don't know what the industry norm is, but I offered and paid 40% off the DSRP. To judge the real world value based on what is written on the windshield of a similar coach is unrealistic. The same is true of the book value for the first two or three years if their formula begins depreciation from MSRP instead of actual sales numbers.
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Old 02-08-2015, 12:13 PM   #223
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Twelvevolt,
Like you said I should probably ignore this but since you addressed it to me I will respond.

You don't know me and I don't know you so I will take your long response with a grain of salt. It's amazing how some can read so much into a simple response. The classy comment was way out of line, all my comment to that was I don't think it's classy to make fun of people for whatever choice they make new vs used it's all personal choice. So if you haven't done that then you shouldn't even be concerned about it. I don't consider myself any better than the next guy and treat people the way they treat me. If you were to meet me/talk to me in person you would see your response is somewhat over the top. Oh well.

As far as your info re the msrp/dsrp I don't know where you bought but we didn't play that game, we bought right from the dealer/owner no salesmen involved. When I said the "dealer said" that was on the used models with the less equipment, and they would not budge on the price. And that is not the dealership we bought from. I wasn't the only one who has experienced that. So your real world comment has no merit because if you do your research then you will know your prices and what you can get for your money rather than getting caught up on the flash and glitter.
Never said my MH wouldn't depreciate, just said I wouldn't see it as I will keep it or give it to my kids. Nobody at least not me has labeled anyone including you.

All I've been trying to say is there are a lot of people who buy new for a variety of reasons and just because they do so does not mean they are stupid or can't handle their money, or blindly trust salesmen ect. These are all comments that are made. Just trying to answer the OP's original question of was buying new worth the depreciation, and to us it was to us. We really struggled with this as my brother in law owns two RV dealerships that have used MH's and new TT's. We could have gotten a great deal thru him, but couldn't find what we really wanted. At the end of the day it was my wife that really wanted a new one(wink&nod???) so I had my brother in law look at our deal and even he agreed that we were getting a great deal, and he is a die hard "buy used" guy. So all I have done is try to give the OP an honest answer and to not feel being "stupid" or "being irresponsible" with their money as some infer, should they decide to buy new, and both types of purchases have valid points.
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Old 02-08-2015, 12:20 PM   #224
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Well ... maybe we didn't overthink the decision enough, but we simply made a list of what we wanted, set a budget, and started looking. We couldn't afford a new motorhome, so the thought of initial depreciation never occurred to us. All I can say is that we are very happy with our "Previously Adventured" motorhome and have been very lucky in not having had any major repairs. The decision fit within our life-style and the Return on Investment is measured only in terms of the Happiness Factor.

Based on the last four years, when it is time to upgrade, we would not be afraid to buy "Previously Adventured" again.

\ken
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