Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > MH-General Discussions & Problems
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-28-2015, 12:45 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
bamaboy473's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Gulf Coast, Alabama
Posts: 1,732
What are the numbers on SURGE PROTECTORS??

Doing research on RV surge protectors and I have a few questions of those that know these things:

1. joule ratings vary (from 1250 to 4200, from what I've seen). Is there some point where it becomes overkill?

2. would it be better protection to have two of the 1250 protectors instead of one 2500 rating?

3. Besides portability, is there any advantage to the portable ones?

4. The cheap ones seen to tell us that things are OK or not, but you still get power. The more expensive ones seem to turn everything off if they sense a problem. Is this right? Does anybody with one of them wish they had the other?

Thanks all
__________________

__________________
Rick and Sandy
2003 American Eagle, 52K miles
bamaboy473 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-28-2015, 01:00 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Steve Ownby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 6,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaboy473 View Post
Doing research on RV surge protectors and I have a few questions of those that know these things:



1. joule ratings vary (from 1250 to 4200, from what I've seen). Is there some point where it becomes overkill?



2. would it be better protection to have two of the 1250 protectors instead of one 2500 rating?



3. Besides portability, is there any advantage to the portable ones?



4. The cheap ones seen to tell us that things are OK or not, but you still get power. The more expensive ones seem to turn everything off if they sense a problem. Is this right? Does anybody with one of them wish they had the other?



Thanks all

Personally, I have had this unit installed since 2012:

http://www.progressiveindustries.net...ems-hw50c/cjk6

I can't think of a downside and have never wished for anything else. These get generically called surge protectors but in fact they do much more. High or low voltage is the most common electric issue in RV pedestals. A floating or open neutral is a very serious issue particularly in a 50 amp coach. The street price of one of these is around $300. Cheap insurance.


Steve Ownby
Full time since '07
__________________

__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
Steve Ownby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2015, 01:24 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
bamaboy473's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Gulf Coast, Alabama
Posts: 1,732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Ownby View Post
Personally, I have had this unit installed since 2012:

Progressive Industries RV Surge and Electrical Protection industry lea

High or low voltage is the most common electric issue in RV pedestals. A floating or open neutral is a very serious issue particularly in a 50 amp coach. The street price of one of these is around $300. Cheap insurance.
Steve Ownby
Full time since '07
Your kind response raises a whole 'nuther set of questions such as,
How common is it for CGs to have non-standard voltage if they're getting power from the grid?

What does an open or floating neutral do to your lights and refrigerator and TV?
__________________
Rick and Sandy
2003 American Eagle, 52K miles
bamaboy473 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2015, 01:42 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Steve Ownby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 6,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaboy473 View Post
Your kind response raises a whole 'nuther set of questions such as,

How common is it for CGs to have non-standard voltage if they're getting power from the grid?



What does an open or floating neutral do to your lights and refrigerator and TV?

The voltage coming into the main campground distribution point from the power company is not the problem generally. The problem is with particularly older campgrounds with wiring installed when RVs were not as power hungry as that are now. In mid summer on a weekend with the campground pretty full and running their A/Cs, the voltage starts to drop. We use to stay in a park regularly that would have voltage down under 105 VAC with lower fluctuations. We stayed in a park up in VA where the VAC was ok during the heat of the day, but in the evening when electrical usage dropped off the VAC would hit 132 or higher. The campground management had gotten the power company to give them a higher level of voltage out of their transformer to keep the voltage up during high usage. These voltage fluctuations may not even be noticed if you don't have one of these devices that with cut the current. Both high and low voltage will cause cumulative damage to components and you will have a early failure and you won't even know why.

With 50 amp service, if the neutral leg goes away because of a poor or substandard connection on the circuit, you can get 240 VAC on one leg in your coach. This will fry electronics, A/Cs, anything with a motor. Can be very expensive.


Steve Ownby
Full time since '07
__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
Steve Ownby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2015, 02:00 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Pigman1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,937
I guess some of the answer to your question of "how much is overkill?" all depends. Absolutely NOTHING is going to stop a lightning strike to your pedestal, but what about the idiot that drops a wrench into a j box up the block, or someone hitting a power pole outside the CG? In many cases, I too am concerned with overkill and gilding the lilly, but for a surge protector, I want to go as big as I can. I've seen a lightning strike in my kitchen hurl a cordless phone/intercom base clear across the room, completely vaporize a telephone feed line to that box and do absolutely NOTHING to anything else including 2 TV's and 2 computers running in the house at that time. Just crazy what it can do. In the RV I've had the same Progressive 50A hardwire setup for the past 10 years and feel you can't do better. The new Tiffin Bus supposedly had some protection already built in, but when I checked for exactly what was protected and how much protection was furnished, I pulled the Progressive unit out of the old bus and put it in the new. In this area, I don't think you can ever have too much protection.
__________________
Pigman
2013 Tiffin Allegro Bus 43QGP
2011 Chevy Silverado 1500 Toad
Pigman1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2015, 03:00 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
bamaboy473's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Gulf Coast, Alabama
Posts: 1,732
I guess the nuances of EMS' aren't as important as having one, so that's good.

On the joule/brand question. Is there any reason to consider a Progressive at about 3600j vs. a Surge Guard at 4200j?

I've read nothing but positives about Progressive, and nothing about Surge Guard. Is there a reason for that (since CW sells of ton of everything, and they only carry SG)
__________________
Rick and Sandy
2003 American Eagle, 52K miles
bamaboy473 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2015, 04:13 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
CampDaven's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Fulltime, USA
Posts: 14,446
Blog Entries: 1
I have a PI PT-50C that has saved my stuff many times, and it has a lifetime warranty. A comparable Surge Guard is warranteed for one year and non repairable; a throw away.
Nuff said?
__________________
Dave and Nola, RVM1
The Journey is Our Destination!

http://davenola.blogspot.com/
CampDaven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2015, 09:05 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
bamaboy473's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Gulf Coast, Alabama
Posts: 1,732
Quote:
Originally Posted by CampDaven View Post
I have a PI PT-50C that has saved my stuff many times, and it has a lifetime warranty. A comparable Surge Guard is warranteed for one year and non repairable; a throw away.
Nuff said?
Thanks. Makes the choice a simple one.
__________________
Rick and Sandy
2003 American Eagle, 52K miles
bamaboy473 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2015, 06:55 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
bamaboy473's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Gulf Coast, Alabama
Posts: 1,732
Now that I've established the brand to buy, they have two versions; the LCHW and the HW. Seems that the only difference is that the info panel is remote on the HW, and part of the casing on the LCHW. Price difference $40.

Is there REALLY a good reason to have the remote cluttering up the dashboard or sitting on an interior wall? I guess if it's raining and lightning, it would be nice to see the display without going outside, But why? If something's tripped, we can't do much about it anyway, or am I missing something?


Also, what's involved with installation?
__________________
Rick and Sandy
2003 American Eagle, 52K miles
bamaboy473 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2015, 08:14 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Steve Ownby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 6,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaboy473 View Post
Now that I've established the brand to buy, they have two versions; the LCHW and the HW. Seems that the only difference is that the info panel is remote on the HW, and part of the casing on the LCHW. Price difference $40.



Is there REALLY a good reason to have the remote cluttering up the dashboard or sitting on an interior wall? I guess if it's raining and lightning, it would be nice to see the display without going outside, But why? If something's tripped, we can't do much about it anyway, or am I missing something?





Also, what's involved with installation?

Which version of those two is best depends on your installation & your personal needs.

I have the one with a remote display, but the remote is mounted in the compartment with the unit. The best location to mount the unit might not give a easy view of the front of the unit so the remote display would be better. Also by using the remote display, you have the option later of adding a switch box and second display so you can have a display both inside and at the unit. I like having a display outside, visible when I'm hooking up so I can see any problem with the pedestal right away.

Difficulty of installation is completely dependent on your coach and how accessible a suitable spot to mount the unit is. Progressive recommends installing the unit between the pedestal and the transfer switch. Their reasoning is that RV generators have their own protection circuits and generally supply very clean power. By installing on the shore power side of the transfer switch the switch itself is protected also.

In my coach, I had just enough room between the left side of the transfer switch and the front of the compartment to mount the unit. When I opened the transfer switch and unhooked the incoming shore power cable, there was enough slack to run down to the Progressive unit. Then it was just a matter of running a short cable of 6/3 with ground back to the shore input side of the transfer switch.


Steve Ownby
Full time since '07
__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
Steve Ownby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2015, 09:07 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
flynnwalter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Lake City, Florida
Posts: 450
Bamaboy
X2 what Steve O. wrote. I do not have the additional remote and reasoned as you. Also I am cheap. But there are times when it would be good to have the option to go around the Progressive without having to use the built in bridge wire. The remote allows this. Some of us who are electrically challenged don't feel great about taking the cover off and bridging the unit, even tho you can call Progressive and get a tech to walk you through it. Its always raining at those times! Right after purchasing our Progressive we went to the state park where we have volunteered for 14 yrs running. It has old 30 amp power and on the weekends when there are several big units on the same line, power drops below 104 volts. Our brand new Progressive did what it is supposed to do and cut the power when my wife was drying her hair. Boy was I happy as everyone around us had power but us. Got a Hughes auto former and it upped the volts by 10% by reducing the amps and worked fine for us. I only spent the money because we really, really liked staying at that particular campground, otherwise we would pick up and leave with that kind of power problem. Kinda costly, but as Steve O. advises electric motors don't like low or high voltage. Especially a/c compressors I am told.
__________________
Frank W. '09 Cayman 38 SBD '08 CRV
Lake City, Florida
flynnwalter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2015, 11:10 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Steve Ownby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 6,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by flynnwalter View Post
Bamaboy
X2 what Steve O. wrote. I do not have the additional remote and reasoned as you. Also I am cheap. But there are times when it would be good to have the option to go around the Progressive without having to use the built in bridge wire. The remote allows this. Some of us who are electrically challenged don't feel great about taking the cover off and bridging the unit, even tho you can call Progressive and get a tech to walk you through it. Its always raining at those times! Right after purchasing our Progressive we went to the state park where we have volunteered for 14 yrs running. It has old 30 amp power and on the weekends when there are several big units on the same line, power drops below 104 volts. Our brand new Progressive did what it is supposed to do and cut the power when my wife was drying her hair. Boy was I happy as everyone around us had power but us. Got a Hughes auto former and it upped the volts by 10% by reducing the amps and worked fine for us. I only spent the money because we really, really liked staying at that particular campground, otherwise we would pick up and leave with that kind of power problem. Kinda costly, but as Steve O. advises electric motors don't like low or high voltage. Especially a/c compressors I am told.

Your comments about the Hughes Autoformer reflect my experience also. When I installed my Progressive I also had a Hughes which I only used when faced with low VAC. Some time after my initial install of the Progressive and a few instances of low voltage, I wired the Hughes in before the Progressive. Now, everything is inside out of the rain and prying eyes. Low voltage, which is the number one electrical issue in campgrounds, has to be be below 95 VAC at the pedestal before my power is cut. Typically, in low voltage situation, it won't drop that low.


Steve Ownby
Full time since '07
__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
Steve Ownby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2015, 08:10 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
flynnwalter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Lake City, Florida
Posts: 450
Steve et al
We have a side cooler for the Allison, which swings out to reveal the Lippert hydraulics and an area where I could 'hide' the Hughes Autoformer. I hid it not because I feared theft, but the first time I used it a neighbor came by and asked what it was, and I explained my need and how it worked. It got back to me that some camper complained I was taking electricity from others to protect our coach, which was patently untrue. But not wanting a brouhaha, I decided to 'hide' it. We now park at a different area that has good 50 amp power, so its mostly unused, and due to its being a 30 amp, I would not hook it up as you have. The 50 amp Hughes was just too expensive. The only other time I have used it besides that particular State Park was when a friend was staying in his coach awaiting service at a Jax dealership at which a 110v extension cord had been lobbed over the fence to his coach. It was cold for N. Fla and his then new coach had a residential fridge, and a need to run the propane furnace which uses lots of juice. The 110v cord kept popping a breaker and so he drove his toad back to my house and returned with the Hughes. No problem after that.
I had some discussions with a pleasant lady at Hughes who advised there were often problems with Hughes Autoformers being sold on Ebay. They did not work and Hughes won't fix them unless you are the original owner. She also volunteered to give me a break on the price, so I took her up on it. Caveat Emptor.
__________________
Frank W. '09 Cayman 38 SBD '08 CRV
Lake City, Florida
flynnwalter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2015, 08:39 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Steve Ownby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 6,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by flynnwalter View Post
Steve et al
We have a side cooler for the Allison, which swings out to reveal the Lippert hydraulics and an area where I could 'hide' the Hughes Autoformer. I hid it not because I feared theft, but the first time I used it a neighbor came by and asked what it was, and I explained my need and how it worked. It got back to me that some camper complained I was taking electricity from others to protect our coach, which was patently untrue. But not wanting a brouhaha, I decided to 'hide' it. We now park at a different area that has good 50 amp power, so its mostly unused, and due to its being a 30 amp, I would not hook it up as you have. The 50 amp Hughes was just too expensive. The only other time I have used it besides that particular State Park was when a friend was staying in his coach awaiting service at a Jax dealership at which a 110v extension cord had been lobbed over the fence to his coach. It was cold for N. Fla and his then new coach had a residential fridge, and a need to run the propane furnace which uses lots of juice. The 110v cord kept popping a breaker and so he drove his toad back to my house and returned with the Hughes. No problem after that.
I had some discussions with a pleasant lady at Hughes who advised there were often problems with Hughes Autoformers being sold on Ebay. They did not work and Hughes won't fix them unless you are the original owner. She also volunteered to give me a break on the price, so I took her up on it. Caveat Emptor.

It's a common misconception that some how the Autoformer uses more power which somehow robs other users. That's another reason I wired the Hughes in a compartment. I had an unpleasant exchange with a campground manager in California. The campground prohibited Autoformers because the wiring was dated & seasonals were complaining about Autoformers "stealing" power. Mine is now behind the transfer switch & can't be easily seen even with the compartment open.


Steve Ownby
Full time since '07
__________________

__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
Steve Ownby is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Surge protectors DebbieMH Entegra Owner's Forum 26 08-14-2015 04:46 PM
Plug for TRC surge protectors n5pht MH-General Discussions & Problems 8 05-28-2014 08:22 PM
Surge protectors doodah Class A Motorhome Discussions 30 03-06-2014 07:49 PM
Surge protectors boogerman MH-General Discussions & Problems 28 01-24-2014 12:20 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.