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Old 10-13-2014, 02:31 PM   #29
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What the Heck Happened to my Tire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
80 psi or 95? Which is based on actual tire loads +10%

"Zippers" are the result of run low flex failure of the steel body ply.

This data confirms you are correct about not covering tires with white covers.

Nice info Roger!
I look forward to you further research. I have the black MCD tire covers that mount with a rope channel around the wheel well edge. So, they hang straight and do not touch the tires.
Here are my temperature test results at 12 noon, 72F ambient:

Sunny side, tire cover/tire, 137F/87F
Shady side, 72/72.
Do you have an estimate of effectiveness based on this info?
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Old 10-13-2014, 02:42 PM   #30
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The covers
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Old 10-13-2014, 04:51 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by DMTTRANSPORT View Post
..That makes it "OK"..No That's an Excuse!

Wow! Sorry you feel that way. You should go into manufacturing yourself and see how that all works out for you. I have been there and done that for many years and we have had times that something failed and we could find no reason why. No excuses made, just could find nothing that caused the failure. I had one of those big irritations just before I retired. We made a part FIVE TIMES before it didn't break again! The original part ran 22 years before it failed. You tell me and our engineers why the exact same part failed five times inside of two months, made from the original print using the same material as the first one, as well as hundreds of others we have built that last and last. In some things there is no exact science and things break for no reason. Doesn't make it OK and I would have no excuse but things break.


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Old 10-13-2014, 07:12 PM   #32
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Tireman - I am skeptical of tire covers based on my experience with them. Decades ago I used them religiously on a trailer. Every time we used the trailer I'd remove the tire covers and inspect the sidewalls - they were always pristine and I felt great about the usefulness of the covers. Then one day I was under the trailer doing some maintenance and noticed the sidewalls on the INSIDE - they were not protected by the tire covers and the sidewall cracking was extensive!

Maybe it was because of the different rubber compound used in trailer tires, but the explanation I got from my tire dealer (Wheel Works) was that ozone in the air was a larger culprit than the UV from the sun. So, if there are tire covers that completely cover ALL exposed areas of the tire then they would be effective, but the covers that only cover what you can see while standing beside the rig don't really do much.

Am I all wet, or is there some truth to this?
Ozone is in the air. Not sure how a cover would prevent air from getting to the outer sidewall. Having said that I do not have an answer why the inner sidewalls would be worse.

I have not seen a comparison of UV vs O3 attack on tire rubber. This would be complex as both UV levels and O3 levels vary greatly across the US and over time of the year.

How old were the tires?
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Old 10-13-2014, 07:36 PM   #33
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Just a general post of product variation and "failure" rates.

Tires are very complex product that involves numerous types of rubber be "blended: and shaped then assembled before curing. Each component has normal variation so sometimes the variation of good + bad = OK and good + good = OK but Bad + bad = not OK for service in 5 states but OK for service in the other 45.

Think about Milk. Ever had a jug go bad before the expiration date? How about one that was still good a week after expiration. Did you switch brands from the one that went bad or did you just write it off as random occurrence?

The other issue is that a vanishingly small % of "failed" tires are presented for examination with complete and accurate information on the historical operating history.
Many people don't even save the "failed" tire so it can be given to the mfg for inspection but still expect a free replacement even after years of service and thousands of miles with no problems.
Complaints of tire problems get shared around the campfire or posted on an RV forum but very few owners can be bothered to file an actionable complaint with NHTSA but many of these people are also the ones to complain about poor quality tires being on the road.

Can each & every "failure" be properly diagnosed? No of course not, but I would ask how many readers here can provide the actual individual tire load? How many can confirm with 100% accuracy they have never operated at below the correct inflation or never driven over a curb or hit a 2x4 on the road or dropped a tire into a 6" deep pot hole, and for those with ST type tires how many could certify the tires were never driven above 65 mph?

Speaking of speed, I just drove from OH to OR and recorded over 22 trailers easily exceeding 65 as they passed my RV. I even have dash cam video as proof and it will be part of a future post on my blog. While I can't tell you the exact number, I would testify that many were being towed by transport drivers making a delivery from Indiana to some location to the West.

Life is complex.
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Old 10-13-2014, 09:20 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Ozone is in the air. Not sure how a cover would prevent air from getting to the outer sidewall. Having said that I do not have an answer why the inner sidewalls would be worse.

I have not seen a comparison of UV vs O3 attack on tire rubber. This would be complex as both UV levels and O3 levels vary greatly across the US and over time of the year.

How old were the tires?
I'm trying to remember which trailer it was - I believe it was our '89 Shasta fifth wheel - we traded it in '95, about 6 months after we bought new tires! The OEM tires were Carlisle and had date codes from '87 and '88 if I recall.
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Old 10-15-2014, 03:24 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Without the tire you will have very hard time getting replacement.

It never fails to surprise me why people think they have to present the tire for a warranty complaint.
Trying to get any money out of this is water under the bridge at this point. Honestly, I was so taken aback by the tire's condition -- as I said, I had never seen anything like this before -- that I completely forgot to ask the tire company to save the carcass.

That said, I'm really looking for answers to:
* What happened?
* What could I do/have done to prevent it?

BTW ... Thanks to everyone so far for quite an education about tires. I guess what I'm taking from all this is that I'm going to have to set aside some time periodically to inspect my tires *closely.*
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Old 10-18-2014, 12:34 PM   #36
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OK you would like to know the "Why" but we don't have either the tire or any sufficiently close up pictures to substitute for on-hands examination.
If you review some of my Failed Tire Examination posts on my blog you will see that many times close-up is the only way we can realistically learn the root cause of a tire condition. BUT Lets take a look at one of the conditions you reported.
" inner dually was low (52 psi),"
You say the cuts/cracks didn't go through to inside. How did you confirm that? Did you place the tire-wheel assembly in water tank and confirm where the air was leaking out? Since the tire was significantly low clearly the air went somewhere.

"but wouldn't take air." So you were not able to increase the inflation in the tire even though you could accurately measure it's inflation. This information seems to be contradictory.

Now I am not trying to be argumentative here but just showing that a detailed, accurate and logical method is needed when trying to learn why a tire failed. To me it is not logical that the tire pressure could be measured without the valve being in good working order. but if the valve works then one should be able to add air to a tire.
I did have an interesting case when I was presented with a tire that could be increased in inflation (hear the air flow in) but the gauge always read zero psi internal pressure and I could not let any air out. Eventually I was able to confirm the tire had not been properly mounted and the tire was blocking the internal end of the rubber valve. Air could be forced into the tire bast the blockage but the tire acted like a one way valve preventing internal pressure from entering the valve stem to either exit the tire or to register in the gauge. In your case clearly air could enter the valve stem from the inside of the tire so the valve and pressure gauge were operating correctly. Now it is possible that the air chuck you were using when you tried to inflate the tire was not adjusted correctly so the plunger did not open the valve. This would indicate a failure of the air chuck not a tire or valve related failure for that part of your inspection.

The air chuck problem clearly was not the cause of the air loss so we are left with the inescapable conclusion that there were in fact cuts that did penetrate to the tire air chamber.
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Old 10-20-2014, 12:34 AM   #37
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Now I am not trying to be argumentative ...
Didn't take it that way at all. Thanks for your insights.
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