Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > MH-General Discussions & Problems
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-09-2016, 11:45 AM   #15
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 47
RV Industry

What you are experiencing is nothing more than the typical RV buyers learning curve.

Let me condense it for you. The RV industry is NOT growing, and has not grown with new members in decades. WHY?

The experience you are having is typical. RV dealers, and the industry as a whole, is about where the US automobile industry was in the early 60's, before foreign competition. Autos were unreliable, obsolescence was planned it, so that expensive repairs needed on a regular basis supported their dealer networks. No one made a car any better, really, than any others, just some were more expensive, and had more features. 3 manufacturers controlled 95% of US auto sales.

In the US right now, 2 companies are responsible for 90% of all new RV sales. Both companies typically use the same subcontractors for 90% of the systems installed in the coaches. They are ALL poorly engineered, built with the cheapest materials possible, and installed haphazardly with absolutely no QA at any of the factories.

So every year hundreds of thousands of new to the industry RVers purchase a new RV, and go through a learning curve hell. Unless, and until the domestic RV manufacturing industry gets some competition, which seems unlikely, NOTHING is going to change. 90% of these new to RV life buyers have such a huge negative experience, that they sell their RV's after a couple of years, and never come back.

Long term RVers are so used to the abuse that they all tell you its typical, and that you will get used to being bent over, and even come to like it! They make all kinds of excuses, blaming you for not inspecting it properly, not hiring a independent inspector, not buying a warranty, not reading your sales contract, on and on.

What they are telling you is that with experience you will learn better to avoid the ripoffs, and poor quality dealers and manufacturers, that make up 95% of this industry.

Its much more likely that most new buyers, you will sell it on n a couple of years and never look back. So the industry doesn't grow, and its likely to start shrinking, as the industry's poor reputation gets more well known.

Camping and RVing are lots of fun, when things go well. Unfortunately, the industry leaders are killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Same thing happened to the snow skiing industry, pleasure boating, golf, and any number of other industries, that took customer acceptance of poor quality and poor value for granted. Everyone thought the party would go on forever, and then the music stopped. Used boats sell for a fraction of new, very expensive golf clubs can be bought used for a song, and ski resorts have closed by the dozens. RV industry needs to pull there heads out, as the buyers certainly are.
__________________

__________________
LeRoi2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-10-2016, 03:30 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Granville, NY 12832
Posts: 167
LeRoi2 has some valid points...I found what he wrote depressing...but he is wrong on a few points.
The total industry has had some impressive growth in the last year or so. Read the weekly newsletter put out by RVTravel.com that lists sales growth...some impressive increases and that means more pressure on campground reservations.
If you tap into this website you will note that RVTravel.com does not pull punches.
They are not a public relations firm for the industry. You might read a few back issues that have covered the poor quality issues and service problems.
The editor (Chuck Woodbury) is out to expose the shortcomings in this industry.

Having been a RV Travel Trailer Camper since 1983 makes me a quality do-it-yourself RV repair technician. A few observations...RV refrigerators...here I have only found Domenitec Brand units in the many travel trailers I have owned...keep you trailer level and they last forever....SureFlow water pumps seem to be trouble free...again in the trailers I have owned.
I discovered AGM (Asorbed glass mat) sealed high amp hour deep cycle batteries are a big step ahead....jury still out on Lithum batteries....RV roofs...many report leaks...I have been lucky but do maintain mine every year.
The reason for lack of quality improvements is the simple fact that 3 Mega-Manufacturers control about 95% of the industry (read about it with all the depressing details in RVTravel.com's weekly newsletter)...it got even worse this year as still other makers got purchased my these 3 Mega-Makers. No competition equals low quality.
To date there is no "Consumer Reports" out there rating the industry's products.
No "Car-Fax" reporting on units. We are all on our own...share your horror stories on websites and perhaps the manufacturers will wake up.....but....as long as we buy their low quality RVs they will make no effort to clean up their acts.
They will however keep adding more big screen TVs, more bathrooms, more leather interiors and increasing the prices accordingly.

One thing we do all overlook....RVs take one hell of a beating bouncing down America's poorly maintained highways....they are subject to forces only found in earthquakes add to that poor design and you have roof leaks, window leaks and units falling apart at a rapid rate. The makers just ignore these destructive forces of highway travel.

Happy Camping !
__________________

__________________
Boomster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2016, 03:52 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
JBDISCOVERY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 372
You know how many RVer's have opinions on "bad dealerships". Enough said. I was glad to see that Lazy Days did return the OP's call. Have dealt with them and been totally satisfied.
You get what you paid for. An RV is a complex machine that travels down the road. The units are made in limited quantities, not like a car. Problems are to be expected.
The advice to move ahead and solve each problem is good advice. Start with the roof.
Regards,
JimB
__________________
JBDISCOVERY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2016, 11:37 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
eprman1's Avatar
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 157
Since you are in RI, try Connecticut Motor Cars. They do awesome work.
__________________
Proud owner of a 2013 Tiffin Allegro 34TGA
Toad - TBD
eprman1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2016, 10:11 PM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBDISCOVERY View Post
The units are made in limited quantities, not like a car. Problems are to be expected.
The advice to move ahead and solve each problem is good advice. Start with the roof.
Regards,
JimB
1. limited quantities should produce higher quality
2. Why should problems expected? When the customer begins to demand something other than problems, maybe things will improve.

Yes the rv is a complex machine, but that should not eliminate quality.
The problem is NO regulation.
__________________
rvethereyet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 08:27 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
Hit_the_Rhod's Avatar


 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Salvisa, KY
Posts: 1,640
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvethereyet View Post
1. limited quantities should produce higher quality
2. Why should problems expected? When the customer begins to demand something other than problems, maybe things will improve.

Yes the rv is a complex machine, but that should not eliminate quality.
The problem is NO regulation.

And we all KNOW that more regulation decreases cost and increases quality . . . . .
__________________
Scot & Laura Kellersberger
2001 Newmar 4 wheel drive Dutch Star 3891, 2005 GMC Canyon. Demco Tow Bar & Baseplate U.S.Army (ret)
1985 - 2006
Hit_the_Rhod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 09:25 AM   #21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Granville, NY 12832
Posts: 167
Quality and the integrity of the build have been an ongoing issue since I started RV camping back in 1983. With the exception of molded fiberglass travel trailers roofs have always leaked over time. Constant maintenance is required by the owner...skip this and you will have many problems from mold to soft floors.
Before you run out to buy a molded fiberglass travel trailer be aware these units have size restrictions and are not without problems. This class of trailer is very expensive...most are made north of the border in British Columbia or Canada.
They have no dealer support networks in the USA with the exception of two makers located in the USA and even they lack a proper dealer/service network.
Without any showrooms you either have to travel to the factory...order and then wait (often a year or more)... Then good luck getting delivery in the lower 48 states....most make the return trip to the factory for a pick-up. If you need service after the sale good luck...that absent dealer network to handle service now opens a whole new can of worms.
Most fiberglass makers in Canada do have a network of U.S. owners who will show you their model...sort of a volunteer show and tell showroom. These makers need to learn basic marketing techniques and "service after the sale".
Their products are not without problems...windows leak just like on any travel trailer and systems do fail...appliances do develop problems etc. etc.

I have been pleased with many of the standard components used by RV manufacturers...refrigerators seem to be problem free if you operate them in a level RV. I have never had any major issues with water heaters or furnaces.
Roof top A/C units have never been an issue for me...perhaps I have been lucky.
There are many other systems on an RV that require maintenance.

At this point in the continuing evolution of the RV the manufacturers seem to be more interested in adding whistles and bells...things like more TVs...second bathrooms while ignoring the small size of the first bathroom. If you are too young to remember the original telephone booths just consider the RV bathroom as the next generation of the phone booth...most RV bathrooms are so small you must exit the facility if you wish to change your mind...forget about changing your clothes in this mini-phone-booth with plumbing.

Keep that age old adage "Buyer Beware" in mine when shopping for your first RV New or Used !

Happy Camping and remember to bring your tool box....chances are you will need it !
__________________
Boomster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 04:26 PM   #22
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hit_the_Rhod View Post
And we all KNOW that more regulation decreases cost and increases quality . . . . .
You are right. Maybe I did nt use the right word. My point being is 99 settle for and expect poor quality going in. I will do the same. But why does it have to be that way. As long as we continue to pay big bucks...they will continue to make a cheap product. Maybe that is all most can afford.
__________________
rvethereyet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2016, 07:25 AM   #23
Senior Member
 
Hit_the_Rhod's Avatar


 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Salvisa, KY
Posts: 1,640
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvethereyet View Post
1.
Yes the rv is a complex machine, but that should not eliminate quality.
The problem is NO regulation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvethereyet View Post
You are right. Maybe I did nt use the right word. My point being is 99 settle for and expect poor quality going in. I will do the same. But why does it have to be that way. As long as we continue to pay big bucks...they will continue to make a cheap product. Maybe that is all most can afford.
Rvethereyet, I was just kind of poking fun!

On Regulations, normally the Gov't gets into regulating stuff when it becomes a safety hazard, and although some RV quality control issues like brakes, drive train etc definitely do fit into the safety mold, most of those issues are already regulated through the DOT and chassis manufacturer.

Most quality control issues RV's have come in poor design, materials, and assembly of the actual living space. While an inconvenience, and in some cases a MAJOR inconvenience possibly making the RV unlivable, these issues IMHO are only going to change with market forces. The problem with that is that RV buyers do not present a cohesive body that have any overall impact on the RV industry. Individual buyers that decide to purchase one brand over another do no really impact the suspected "lower quality" manufacturer as long as there are buyers (either naive or just not knowledgeable enough) who will not discern that the RV they are buying is not of good quality. Most times, the manufacturer has no way of knowing that a discriminating buyer chose another brand anyway!

So until we as RV'ers band together, our best route is to be an informed consumer, do our due diligence, research brands/models through literature and probably more importantly, sites like IRV2 and a least ensure that WE purchase a quality RV . . .
__________________
Scot & Laura Kellersberger
2001 Newmar 4 wheel drive Dutch Star 3891, 2005 GMC Canyon. Demco Tow Bar & Baseplate U.S.Army (ret)
1985 - 2006
Hit_the_Rhod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2016, 08:19 AM   #24
Senior Member
 
BPoland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 695
Maybe the problem is just as much the uneducated public as it is the manufacturers. They have no idea what they are getting into. They have no idea what to look for or look out for. Buying a used coach is a risk at best. The salesman will always tell you it was owned by an elderly couple that only used it a few times and took meticulous care of it. A large percentage of RV salesman were previous used car salesman I'm sure. That's not to say all RV dealers or salesman are crooks, but they do exist. Shady characters that are looking to turn a quick buck. Hoping that the coach will make it off the lot before it craps out. But there are good dealerships to be found. The ones that have been around for many years, didn't stay in business by ripping their customers off. North Trail and Lazy Days are to that come to mind.

There are good manufacturers and there are bad ones. If you spend time in some of the manufacturer's forums on IRV2 you will hear of horror stories. Every manufacturer has problems. The difference is, how do they treat their customers when the problems occur. What do they do after the sale.

In one case I know of from last year, a customer bought a brand new Newmar London Aire DP for about $900K. On the trip home from the plant a water fitting broke and flooded the coach. We are talking water sloshing up to the front of the coach when the brakes were put on. It wasn't a quick process and it didn't happen overnight, but Newmar stepped up and replaced the coach with another brand new one. Does this happen every day? Nope! but it does happen. Most times on boards like this, you only hear about the bad things. People rarely time the time to post about how they replaced the A/C unit even though it was out of warranty (happened to me). So, a better informed consumer is also a step in the right direction.
__________________

__________________
Bill & Denise
2014 Bay Star 3103 - 5 Star Tune
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4X4 Limited
BPoland is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
If You Had a Flat!!! How Would you Jack the Coach??? Latitude Newmar Owner's Forum 27 08-17-2009 09:36 PM
I Would Have Paid $500 More If Monaco Would Have..... Lukeaa Monaco Owner's Forum 15 02-11-2009 09:19 PM
"If" you get either Bilsteins or Monroes for the same price, which would you get? ISLAPP MH-General Discussions & Problems 20 02-22-2006 10:08 AM
How would you stop your MH if you lost all brakes? BEBOP MH-General Discussions & Problems 15 01-31-2005 01:21 PM
How would you stop your MH if you lost all brakes? BEBOP Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum 12 01-15-2005 04:43 AM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.