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Old 01-14-2016, 06:47 PM   #1
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WHY, WHAT - LED Light Causes TV Signal Loss

I just replaced all of the reading lights in the coach with LED's. When I am watching TV (Batwing Antenna w/ Booster on) and turn on a LED reading light, I loose TV Signal.
I have also noticed in the past, I also loose TV signal when I turn on the ceiling vent fan.

I assume there is some kind of interference.
Is there anyone that can explain this to me AND offer a solution?

Thank You for the time and effort to reply.
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Old 01-14-2016, 06:48 PM   #2
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Sounds like you have cheap led's generating noise
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Old 01-14-2016, 06:53 PM   #3
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Sounds like you have cheap led's generating noise
Bought US Seller and paid about $15 each for custom lights.
Still, doesn't mean they are any good.
BUT, fan also causes interference...................................... .............
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Old 01-14-2016, 06:53 PM   #4
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http://www.leapfroglighting.com/led-...transmissions/



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Old 01-14-2016, 07:10 PM   #5
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LEDs do not generate noise on their own. There has to be circuitry to allow dimming or some such. A fan generates noise via the motor...brushes, commutators, that sort of thing.

What your symptoms tell me is that something is going on with your battery system. This can be a simple as a bad connection...corrosion or some such. Or something wrong with the TV itself. The minor noise propagated throughout the RV when the fans running or the LED lights are turned on would made me look for an issue in the antenna amplifier. And specifically, in the battery power supply.
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Old 01-14-2016, 09:18 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by winnie32v View Post
I have also noticed in the past, I also loose TV signal when I turn on the ceiling vent fan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger Smith View Post
Sounds like you have cheap led's generating noise

So then the fan issue is just a coincidence?
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Old 01-16-2016, 10:09 PM   #7
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Check with whatever is supplying the 12 VDC power to your antenna booster (probably the infamous BOMB). Possibly there is a problem with that source or the ground.

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Old 01-17-2016, 12:14 AM   #8
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Get a different brand of led or go back to incandescent ...
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Old 01-17-2016, 12:57 AM   #9
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Are these 1156 LEDs?
I had the issue with 1 of them when on a already weak park cable TV hookup. Haven't been on park cable since, but never have the problem on Dish. All TV is thru the BOMB so I don't believe the issue was a connection there. I had previously used strong park TV cable and did not have the issue.

Let us know the solution and good luck!
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Old 01-17-2016, 01:02 AM   #10
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Do yourself a favor and do some testing. The classical method is using an AM radio. Put it near the device you think might be making the noise, turn on the radio and set to a blank station with the volume up to where you can hear the noise. Turn the device on and off and see if the noise changes. If it does you have a problem you can then tell if you fixed or not. (I expect you will get at least some change.) You can also use the radio to move around the system looking for a bad connection that is making noise.

The noise generally comes from two sources.

LED's run around 3 VDC and depend on some kind of current limiting to prevent them from burning out from over voltage. For a constant voltage and a low current LED a resistor will do the trick. For wider voltage swings or higher currents like area lighting a switching regulator does the job much more efficiently. The problem is the square or pulse wave they generate is rich in noise. That has to be suppressed but suppression costs.

Bad connections also tend to arc. Arcing is rich in electrical noise. You are more likely going to find that walking along the wiring with the radio looking for a noise increase.

The fixes come down to tightening connections, replacing faulty units and bypassing the noise to ground with filters. There is more to the last than I want to get into here.
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Old 01-17-2016, 09:14 AM   #11
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Note the FCC label on most things now.

In a nutshell it states the device must accept what is there but must NOT generate interfearance.

May not apply to lighting but if you determine the lighting is generating noise via a repeatable test such as the one above ( needs to be old school radio like an old pocket transistor radio...dating ourselves...) then contact the vendor for refund or replacement and if the push back indicate product violates FCC requirements.

Not finished coffee yet but part 68 or 90...The label is on most anything anymore just have one handy.

Request replacements are FCC certified.
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Old 01-17-2016, 12:35 PM   #12
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Rfi (radio frequency interference ) is the result of poor power supply design in the led lamp. There's no choice but to try a more expensive, better designed light.

http://www.emcrules.com/2011/07/radi...-lighting.html
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Old 01-17-2016, 01:03 PM   #13
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Three part reply:
The light you see when you turn on a LED is Electromagnetic "Interference" Same as radio only higher in frequency (TV is "Visual Radio" by the way or Radio with moving pictures if you like).

So all diodes make noise, how much depends but LED's are very noisy. Now it is possible to "Short out" much of the noise in many cases and the better LED asseblies are pre-shorted. Also some Led Assemblies, due to their design are noisier than others.. Also some TV signals are stronger than others.

Part 2: Dimmable LEDs. If your LED install is dimmable, the normal way to dim LEDS is with a PWM dimmer (Turn them on and off at a high rate of speed, 60 times a second or more, and vary the width of the ON and OFF portions.. This means you are feeding them SQUARE WAVE power.. Which of course has harmonics up to the you don't want to know range (Well past TV channels) So run them FULL ON or FULL OFF and the interference is lessened.. Source: Gordon West. Famous Technical writer and Ham Radio Operator. who demonstrated what he was yacking about. Please note I'm not really a big fan of Mr. West but when he's right.. HE IS RIGHT.

Part 3: What to do about it.

Two things cut down on RFI (Radio(Or television) Frequency interference) One is capicators.. A small disc ceramic, say .1, 01 or .001 uF across the device (From Positive to ground) as close to the LED as possible.. Often does the trick.

Second is Ferrite "Beads" these are kind of strange looking things.. There are two powdered metal half shells and a plastic shell around them, You open it up, and close it over the wire (positive normally) and close it, It "Chokes" the interference.

For more These two links are to books you can buy. now they are directed towards folks like me who have very senistive radios that we need to block interference from, but they apply to your case as well, The 2nd one is the more complete book.. I used to have it.

ARRL :: Technical :: RFI Pocket Guide

ARRL :: Technical :: The ARRL RFI Book 3rd Edition
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Old 01-17-2016, 03:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Rfi (radio frequency interference ) is the result of poor power supply design in the led lamp. There's no choice but to try a more expensive, better designed light.
l
This is the most accurate assessment of the situation presented so far although buying a "better designed" light is not so easy.

The choice, currently, is between a non regulated or regulated lamp assembly.

Regulated lamps likely will generate RFI. All that I have tested do. There is no incentive for the manufacturers to suppress the RFI since the products are used in a closed system (the RV) and the interference is not likely to propagate beyond the vehicle.

Unregulated lamps will fluctuate in light output in step with various loading of the 12 volt system, but will not generate RFI.

Heat concerns dictate the use of PWM regulation and RFI comes with it. Suppression of the RFI can be relatively expensive for reasons too complex to explain here. A simple capacitor is not going to cut it.

LED diodes, as well as other general purpose diodes are NOT a source of RFI. The exception to that is diodes used as high current switches, such as an alternator in a vehicle, that can generate high frequency pulses in the electrical system that can affect radio reception..in the vehicle. If there is disagreement with that, then I would welcome a reference to a credible, professional source.

Bluntly stated, for the RV owner, the options are to accept the loss of OTA TV reception, migrate to cable only program sourcing, or purchase non regulated lighting systems. Good luck determining which is which.

Note that I don't recommend suppressing the troublesome lamps. My time is too valuable to waste....that way.

Phil
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