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Old 10-18-2019, 11:16 AM   #1
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Winnebago investing heavily in Electric motorhomes

Interesting read. Bring it on.

https://electrek.co/2019/10/18/winne...-electric-rvs/
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Old 10-18-2019, 01:45 PM   #2
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The vision of an all electric fleet of vehicles of all types won't change CO2 emissions much. One gallon of gasoline contains ~120,000 BTU's. One cubic foot of natural gas contains ~1,000 BTU's. For every gallon of gasoline not burned, 120 cubic feet of natural gas would need to be burned to generate the electricity needed to replace that gasoline (no incremental electricity will not come from wind nor solar). One gallon of gasoline would emit ~18 lbs. of CO2. The 120 cubic feet of natural gas burned to generate an gasoline energy equivalent amount of electricity would produce ~14 lbs. of CO2 (~22% less).

An all electric fleet of vehicles powered by natural gas derived electricity conceptually would reduce transportation CO2 emissions by 22%. CO2 emission from the transportation sector of the USA is only 34% of total CO2 emissions. When that 22% reduction in CO2 emissions is applied to the transportation sector, the net overall CO2 reduction for the USA is a mere 6%.

The capital investment required to achieve the vision of an all electric fleet of vehicles would be massive with minimal climate benefit and no economic benefit. The media never reports this type of information (because journalists are not engineers or for some other reasons?). As such I and my petroleum refining business will be around for decades to come and I will continue many enjoyable journeys in my diesel powered motorhome.

The fuel energy content data is available from this website --> https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/f...nt-d_1298.html


CO2 emissions data by fuel type is available from the EPA --> https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=73&t=11


CO2 emissions by "fuel user" is available from the EPA --> https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/ove...eenhouse-gases

Apologies for the "deep dive" into facts but I and my colleagues are very weary of the attacks on our petroleum refining business and livelihood.
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Old 10-18-2019, 02:07 PM   #3
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Interesting, but don't think a 91 kwh battery pack is going to work for anything bigger than a small class B. But with a NEMA 14-50 charger at a campground could conceivably charge it overnight, for limited travel the next day.
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Old 10-18-2019, 02:11 PM   #4
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The vision of an all electric fleet of vehicles of all types won't change CO2 emissions much. One gallon of gasoline contains ~120,000 BTU's. One cubic foot of natural gas contains ~1,000 BTU's. For every gallon of gasoline not burned, 120 cubic feet of natural gas would need to be burned to generate the electricity needed to replace that gasoline (no incremental electricity will not come from wind nor solar). One gallon of gasoline would emit ~18 lbs. of CO2. The 120 cubic feet of natural gas burned to generate an gasoline energy equivalent amount of electricity would produce ~14 lbs. of CO2 (~22% less).

An all electric fleet of vehicles powered by natural gas derived electricity conceptually would reduce transportation CO2 emissions by 22%. CO2 emission from the transportation sector of the USA is only 34% of total CO2 emissions. When that 22% reduction in CO2 emissions is applied to the transportation sector, the net overall CO2 reduction for the USA is a mere 6%.

The capital investment required to achieve the vision of an all electric fleet of vehicles would be massive with minimal climate benefit and no economic benefit. The media never reports this type of information (because journalists are not engineers or for some other reasons?). As such I and my petroleum refining business will be around for decades to come and I will continue many enjoyable journeys in my diesel powered motorhome.

The fuel energy content data is available from this website --> https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/f...nt-d_1298.html


CO2 emissions data by fuel type is available from the EPA --> https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=73&t=11


CO2 emissions by "fuel user" is available from the EPA --> https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/ove...eenhouse-gases

Apologies for the "deep dive" into facts but I and my colleagues are very weary of the attacks on our petroleum refining business and livelihood.
Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting. I think it depends on where your country gets it’s power from. Different story in different country.

I just want a 28 foot Super C with opposing slides on a nice electric chassis. Most people buy EV’s for performance, features, low maintenance and convenience. Ev motorhomes won’t suit everybody’s travelling style but they would for us. We typically travel 2 to 5 hours a days and then hang out for awhile. Takes ya three weeks to go from BC to California sometimes. .
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Old 10-18-2019, 03:40 PM   #5
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Good example of where the Winnebago acquiring Newmar will be helpful.
I think it's a decent possibility that Winnebago would launch their first production electric RV in a Newmar due to the anticipated higher cost of the powerplant.
And, both brands get to share the same NRE (engineering cost).
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Old 10-18-2019, 05:11 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by fagnaml View Post
The vision of an all electric fleet of vehicles of all types won't change CO2 emissions much. One gallon of gasoline contains ~120,000 BTU's. One cubic foot of natural gas contains ~1,000 BTU's. For every gallon of gasoline not burned, 120 cubic feet of natural gas would need to be burned to generate the electricity needed to replace that gasoline (no incremental electricity will not come from wind nor solar). One gallon of gasoline would emit ~18 lbs. of CO2. The 120 cubic feet of natural gas burned to generate an gasoline energy equivalent amount of electricity would produce ~14 lbs. of CO2 (~22% less).

An all electric fleet of vehicles powered by natural gas derived electricity conceptually would reduce transportation CO2 emissions by 22%. CO2 emission from the transportation sector of the USA is only 34% of total CO2 emissions. When that 22% reduction in CO2 emissions is applied to the transportation sector, the net overall CO2 reduction for the USA is a mere 6%.

The capital investment required to achieve the vision of an all electric fleet of vehicles would be massive with minimal climate benefit and no economic benefit. The media never reports this type of information (because journalists are not engineers or for some other reasons?). As such I and my petroleum refining business will be around for decades to come and I will continue many enjoyable journeys in my diesel powered motorhome.

The fuel energy content data is available from this website --> https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/f...nt-d_1298.html


CO2 emissions data by fuel type is available from the EPA --> https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=73&t=11


CO2 emissions by "fuel user" is available from the EPA --> https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/ove...eenhouse-gases

Apologies for the "deep dive" into facts but I and my colleagues are very weary of the attacks on our petroleum refining business and livelihood.
Great overview and honest and accurate

The only real advantage to EV's is the simplicity of the motor and that is it

Battery material mining and recycling chew up any other advantages

Congested cities could benefit by transferring the pollution elsewhere
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Old 10-18-2019, 05:45 PM   #7
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Great overview and honest and accurate

The only real advantage to EV's is the simplicity of the motor and that is it

Battery material mining and recycling chew up any other advantages

Congested cities could benefit by transferring the pollution elsewhere
Your last sentence sure nailed it on the head. Even smaller mountain communities would benefit hugely as the air tends to get trapped and hang out.
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Old 10-18-2019, 06:21 PM   #8
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Big EVs make some sense if it's stop and go...deliver vans and school buses. When a 40,000lb vehicle (before the added weight of the batteries) can go 750 miles before needing recharging I'll think about it. Not really a problem as I'll be dead by then.
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Old 10-18-2019, 06:24 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by fagnaml View Post
The vision of an all electric fleet of vehicles of all types won't change CO2 emissions much. One gallon of gasoline contains ~120,000 BTU's. One cubic foot of natural gas contains ~1,000 BTU's. For every gallon of gasoline not burned, 120 cubic feet of natural gas would need to be burned to generate the electricity needed to replace that gasoline (no incremental electricity will not come from wind nor solar). One gallon of gasoline would emit ~18 lbs. of CO2. The 120 cubic feet of natural gas burned to generate an gasoline energy equivalent amount of electricity would produce ~14 lbs. of CO2 (~22% less).

What you are missing is that internal combustion engines are not very efficient... most of that BTU energy from the gasoline is going to heat, not moving the vehicle. An EV car is emitting very little heat, so many more miles are travelled for the same energy.
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Old 10-18-2019, 07:58 PM   #10
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I am all for the electric rv but needs to be at a reasonable price. I’m not worried about reducing co2 or any of that other stuff. Just looking for reasonable roi. Right now roi on electric cars doesn’t exist. I do not think it will be in the average persons wheelhouse any time soon. Pricing like a Tesla / Newmar is not going to get it done. Big problem is as soon as they come into play rv parks will have a new higher nightly rate for them because they need to charge up. No free lunch.

Enjoy the journey
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Old 10-19-2019, 08:02 AM   #11
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There are lots of threads discussing electric RVs and the Pros / cons / Costs/ Range/ charging time / etc. Let's not recreate all of those same conversations again here...Heck, I think there are three or four going on just today / yesterday.

Can we make this thread specific about Winnebago and not EVs in general?
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Old 10-19-2019, 08:35 AM   #12
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There are lots of threads discussing electric RVs and the Pros / cons / Costs/ Range/ charging time / etc. Let's not recreate all of those same conversations again here...Heck, I think there are three or four going on just today / yesterday.

Can we make this thread specific about Winnebago and not EVs in general?
I doubt it. It’s a conversation board. Conversations drift. Consider just unsubscribing from the thread.
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Old 10-19-2019, 08:48 AM   #13
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We have to have our weekly conversation about EVs, barking dogs, doggie doo doo, campfires, bright lights, gas vs diesel, mice fixes, hard icecream, and 10 others I cant think of right now. There is a 500 post thread on this same topic, and all the other ones listed. If you want to save days of waiting, just search the topic. Otherwise, welcome to the forum. You can choose to join the conversation or not. No one forcing anyone to read another rant about doggie doo or any other topic.
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Old 10-19-2019, 09:12 AM   #14
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Pffffffffttttt!!! and Piffffffle! Not to be a wet Crow but that is a really ridiculous plan. Those things couldn't travel from my house to Austin, New Braunfels or San Angelo without being recharged for a couple hours. (100 miles and 2 hours; 100 miles & 1.5 hrs; 150 miles & 2+ hours). Not even considering traffic delays, cab AC on in 100+F heat on a sunny day.......



I'm sure that every CG is going to ask.... 'Is it all electric? There's a surcharge for all electric (because we had to put in new pedestals and high amp circuits AND you are sucking more electricity out of our tiny little system here in Po-dunkey, East No-where USA.



And just think of this issue..... RVs with solar panel for coach batteries can barely keep up with a charge rate to keep an electric fridge running at night. Is that mess going to charge a traction battery underway? Nope! Is it going to charge coach and traction batteries when parked. Nope! Gonna be able to run your coach AC underway? Probably not.... unless you have a genny.



And..... if you consider that many RVs are marginal on payload capacity, sticking a traction battery in that affair is going to further marginalize the payload ability.



I can see it now... Hello, AAA? I'm in an RV and I'm out of juice. Do you have a 3 mile extension cord? Or, do you have a portable generator to 'jump me' so I can drive 3 miles to a charging station?



Now.... if someone is thinking about a hybrid (ICE (not that ICE!) & electric system), that might be a possibility. Never the less, it all comes with consequences. Right now, unless you are running diesel locomotives or ships with prime movers running generators to power the electric motors..... it isn't possible to make a practical vehicle capable of long distances, high speed, heavy duty (like trucks & RVs) all electric vehicles. Probably not going to be in the future either. (If it were, railroads would have installed all electric power (without overhead catenaries) decades ago. (And yes.... they did have battery powered movers for some applications but not road engines.)
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