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Old 07-20-2011, 12:30 PM   #57
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Don,

Like I stated in my post I know there will be someone to diasagree with me and I guess it will be you.

You must remember that I am very familiar with driving in snowy conditions as I lived in Northern NJ all of my life except for the past 10 years. When FWD came out I had one and it handled very well in the snow with no problems. The best card that I had that handled great in the snow was a 1963 VW bug w/ or w/o chains on it. I never had a 4 wheel drive car at any time and handled every snowy condition that was thrown at me. If you need the 4 wheel then enjoy it, however I don't.

I also drove my 1996 Minnie Winnie in NH snow storms in white out conditions but that is another tale.

Today I had my Escape serviced and for those that were concerned about leaving the key in it because of a locked steering wheel, the 2011 Ford Escape steering wheel does not lock. That is why when mine is on our dolly I have to really tighten the straps to keep the front wheels straight.

Well hope this answers everyone's question about a great automobile the 2011 Ford Escape limited with all the bells and whistles.

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Old 07-20-2011, 01:18 PM   #58
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Tom I am not trying to be a pain here but why do you worry about the wheels being perfectly straight while your front wheels are on a tow dolly? Isn't the dolly wheels doing the steering for the car. Also the only reason I have 4wd is because it was all they had on the lot. Go figure.
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Old 07-20-2011, 02:28 PM   #59
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If the front wheels are not straight while on the dolly and the straps are not real tight the wheels tend to climb up on platform. I don't know the physics behind it and consequently when that happens the dolly doesn't track straight behind RV. I know because it happened to me.

Before towing the Escape I towed a Honda Civic w/locking steering wheel and it was fine even if the straps got loose as they usually do.

Long story short if anyone tows a 2011 FWD Escape on a tow dolly make sure straps are tight.
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Old 07-20-2011, 05:55 PM   #60
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Thanks. I have never towed with a dolly. Good answer.
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Old 07-21-2011, 12:56 PM   #61
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Don,

Like I stated in my post I know there will be someone to diasagree with me and I guess it will be you.

You must remember that I am very familiar with driving in snowy conditions as I lived in Northern NJ all of my life except for the past 10 years. When FWD came out I had one and it handled very well in the snow with no problems. The best card that I had that handled great in the snow was a 1963 VW bug w/ or w/o chains on it. I never had a 4 wheel drive car at any time and handled every snowy condition that was thrown at me. If you need the 4 wheel then enjoy it, however I don't.

I also drove my 1996 Minnie Winnie in NH snow storms in white out conditions but that is another tale.

Today I had my Escape serviced and for those that were concerned about leaving the key in it because of a locked steering wheel, the 2011 Ford Escape steering wheel does not lock. That is why when mine is on our dolly I have to really tighten the straps to keep the front wheels straight.

Well hope this answers everyone's question about a great automobile the 2011 Ford Escape limited with all the bells and whistles.

I guess when you know you are wrong Tom you know someone has to disagree with you. The key point is that you've never had an AWD or 4wd so how are you qualified to make the comparison? Nothern NJ - as much snow as Ontario, Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Manitoba, Quebec, etc??? NO. Maybe a big dump or two annually but not on a regular basis.

We've had one AWD and one non-AWD in our fleet of two for about 30 years. About 6 years ago we went to two AWD's. On many occasions we experienced first hand the superiority of AWD over FWD in the winter. For 13 years we lived on the Niagara Escarpment and for us the climb from the road at the bottom to our place at the top was an elevation difference of over 400 ft over a short distance. During and after heavy snowfalls RWD vehicles were in deep trouble and school buses could only use one of the four routes up and then only if it was ploughed first. FWD did better but AWD/4WD vehicles were head and shoulders over FWD. Our FWD couldn't get up the driveway in heavy snow but the AWD had no problems until there was so much snow that even the higher clearance couldn't handle it. The driveway was 240 ft with an elevation change of 8 ft. Often we'd run the AWD up and down the driveway to compact the snow and make it possible for the FWD to get to the garage. When it got too heavy for the FWD we had to use the tractor with the snow blower, wheel weights and chains.

Our next home had a 200 ft driveway with a 12 ft rise and the FWD was fine in snow up to 4 to perhaps 6 inches but since we were rural again with open areas the wind would cause severe drifting. Again and again the AWD showed it superiority.

Now, AWD has disadvantages as well - the primary one being increased fuel consumption - and in some cases that has been considerable (you are probably getting 5 mpg more with your FWD Escape than our AWD Escape). It also means a more complex drive train and we've made sure that with such vehicles we've put on the extended warranty if we've kept them beyond the regular power train warranty. If we lived in a southern climate we would not even think of getting AWD. In fact, I'd probably giver serious consideration to a full frame RWD vehicle again (when we lived on the Escarpment I mada a mistake and swapped a Lincoln Continental for a Mercury Grand Marquis. Oh what a mistake. Got stranded several times and swapped it for a Chrysler LHS that was FWD and much better.).

Keep in mind that AWD can get the power to the ground much better. Note that AWD was banned in F1 racing, Indy and most other classes because of the advantages it provides. In ice racing on the lakes it also has a distinct advantage in start up traction. Of course, it doesn't have any advantage to speak of in braking but some owners mistakenly think that it does - before they end up in trouble.

By the way, have you found the little button for the grade brake on your Escape? You might find it solves the problems you described.

Don
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:00 PM   #62
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Hmm, well I live in a snow belt and I do mean snow belt. If I have my front wheel drive all studded up I have had 0 problems. With my AWD I do not need studs and still have 0 problems. No big deal, I just had to add my 2 cents.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:14 PM   #63
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Hmm, well I live in a snow belt and I do mean snow belt. If I have my front wheel drive all studded up I have had 0 problems. With my AWD I do not need studs and still have 0 problems. No big deal, I just had to add my 2 cents.
Studs were banned here over 40 years ago. I remember using vice grips to pull them out of the tires on our 1968 Ford.
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Old 07-21-2011, 09:09 PM   #64
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Our state tried to ban them but the Washington State Patrol said no way. See,,, they are good for somthing.
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Old 07-21-2011, 09:12 PM   #65
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Our state tried to ban them but the Washington State Patrol said no way. See,,, they are good for somthing.
No question they made a difference. Without them the RWD Ford was a pig in the snow. With them it was like a tank. But the way they were ripping up the pavement was getting very costly - thus the ban.
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:01 AM   #66
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Many of the quote AWD vehicles are not true AWD. They are glorified FWD with a form of traction control. They are primarily front wheel drive and when the control senses a wheel spin it directs power to the back wheels. A true AWD would have traction to all wheels all the time like a Subaru or the ability to lock in all wheels either automatically or with a lever.
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Old 07-22-2011, 10:40 AM   #67
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Many of the quote AWD vehicles are not true AWD. They are glorified FWD with a form of traction control. They are primarily front wheel drive and when the control senses a wheel spin it directs power to the back wheels. A true AWD would have traction to all wheels all the time like a Subaru or the ability to lock in all wheels either automatically or with a lever.
That is your definition - which does not make it right. The SAE does not have a definition that supports your position. Here is a discussion of the subject in wiki and the intro made it clear that it applied to North America usage:

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The term four-wheel drive typically describes larger passenger vehicles that may allow the driver to manually switch (sometimes with an automatic option) between two-wheel drive mode (if available) for streets and four-wheel drive mode for low-traction conditions such as ice, mud, snow, or loose gravel.
All-wheel drive (AWD) is often used to describe a "full time" 4WD that may be used on dry pavement without damaging the differentials, although the term may be abused when marketing a vehicle[2] as there are no specific definitions or guidelines (per the SAE for example) to differentiate these terms.[3] AWD can be used on dry pavement because it employs a center differential, which allows each axle to rotate at a different speed. This eliminates driveline binding, wheel hop, and other driveline issues associated with the use of 4WD on dry pavement. For vehicles with more than four wheels, AWD means all wheels drive the vehicle, to varying degrees of engagement, while 4WD means only four of the wheels drive the vehicle continuously. For example, an AWD vehicle with six wheels is often described as a 6×6, the M35 2˝ ton cargo truck being one of the best-known examples (dual wheels on the rear axles are not counted as additional drive wheels).
Because all 4 tires in a full time AWD system are connected by a system of differentials, they are potentially very susceptible to torque reduction when a wheel loses traction. Without sophisticated traction control systems, they would become immobilized when any one of the four tires lost traction. A traditional part time 4WD system does not connect the front and rear via a differential, and therefore does not suffer any front/rear torque reduction—if a front tire loses traction, it does not reduce torque delivered to the rear tires, even without traction control systems.
Part-time 4WD systems are mechanically simpler and cheaper than AWD systems. Also, a part-time 4WD transfer case is usually equipped with a reduction gear setting that provides for higher torque at lower speeds, a vital feature for vehicles that will see much off-road use. In AWD systems a more expensive separate reduction gearbox is usually used. The main drawback of 4WD is that because it lacks a center differential, a part-time 4WD system can only be used in low traction situations where the wheels have the ability to slip as needed.
For these reasons, full-time AWD is appropriate for improving on-road handling and is seen on cars and car-based crossover SUVs, while traditional part-time 4WD systems without center differentials, or with locking center differentials, are better for heavy-duty use such as off-road or in deep snow and are commonly seen on trucks and truck-based SUVs.
Manufacturers often use these terms interchangeably, and the English word all is obviously equivalent to the word four when referring to a set of four wheels. In typical use, the terms are used as described above, but they are not fixed or legal definitions, and some manufacturers, such as Honda, often use the term "four wheel drive" when referring to systems that include center differentials. These terms are therefore not always very reliable for assessing the features and capabilities of a given drivetrain.
Identical drivetrain systems are commonly marketed under different names for upmarket and downmarket branding and, conversely, different drivetrain systems are commonly marketed under the same name for brand uniformity. Audi's quattro, Mercedes-Benz's 4Matic, BMW with the xDrive, Saab's XWD, and Volkswagen's 4motion, for example, can mean either an automatically engaging "on-demand" system with Borg-Warner ITM 3e magnetic or Haldex Traction hydraulic clutch, or a continuously-operating permanent 4WD system with a Torsen (torque-sensing) or other type of a differential.
Our Escape says 4WD but IMO it should say AWD. Our Tahoe had transfer case settings for AWD, 2WD, 4WD Low and 4WD High - and of course the really valuable to towing setting - Neutral. Of course, it was not cheap.
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Old 07-23-2011, 05:56 AM   #68
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That is your definition - which does not make it right. The SAE does not have a definition that supports your position. Here is a discussion of the subject in wiki and the intro made it clear that it applied to North America usage:



Our Escape says 4WD but IMO it should say AWD. Our Tahoe had transfer case settings for AWD, 2WD, 4WD Low and 4WD High - and of course the really valuable to towing setting - Neutral. Of course, it was not cheap.

Ford generally makes the distinction between AWD and 4WD with full time vs part time usage intent.

AWD systems are always on, always supplying at least some torque to all 4 wheels. Our Lincoln MKT is AWD. The torque split varies depending on traction but its always there and always working.

4WD systems like that on the Escape and Explorer are usually driven on the street in normal 2Wd mode, be it FWD or RWD. The transfer case is engaged when additional traction is needed and the other drive axel is powered. The transfer case can be eithe eletronic or manual but the system is not designed for regular dry highway use in 4WD mode.

With the latest generation systems, these lines are getting blurred to the point that the difference between the Explorers new 4WD and our MKT AWD is mostly electronic, not hardware.
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Old 07-23-2011, 01:37 PM   #69
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Ford generally makes the distinction between AWD and 4WD with full time vs part time usage intent.

AWD systems are always on, always supplying at least some torque to all 4 wheels. Our Lincoln MKT is AWD. The torque split varies depending on traction but its always there and always working.

4WD systems like that on the Escape and Explorer are usually driven on the street in normal 2Wd mode, be it FWD or RWD. The transfer case is engaged when additional traction is needed and the other drive axel is powered. The transfer case can be eithe eletronic or manual but the system is not designed for regular dry highway use in 4WD mode.

With the latest generation systems, these lines are getting blurred to the point that the difference between the Explorers new 4WD and our MKT AWD is mostly electronic, not hardware.
Sorry, you are not correct with respect to the Escape. It does not (sadly) have a transfer case (as did my Tahoe and Colorado). Wish it did, then we wouldn't be wondering what the problem is with the 6F35 transmission burning up on so many of them. The window sticker says 4WD but that is not correct depending on the definition used. My Flex has AWD and it has the same system.

I assume the Escape as never had a transfer case because it was not towable until adoption of the 6F35 transmission (a joint product with GM).
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Old 07-24-2011, 09:29 AM   #70
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The AWD version of the Flex and MKT as well as the Excape do indeed have a transfer unit, its just integral with the transmission. The transfer unit is what redirects part of the torque from the normal driven axel (front in this case) to the rear. I suppose the term 'transfer CASE' is outdated in this respect since there is no seperate add on CASE.

Why do you suspect the Escape is not 4WD as advertised on the window sticker. In 4WD mode it does indeed send torque to all 4 wheels.

Not sure what trouble you are having with the AWD system in the Flex but it is NOT the same as what is in the Escape.
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