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Old 01-02-2016, 05:06 AM   #1
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380hp or 425hp?

Plan to buy Phaeton 36qsh (380hp) or Allegro Bus 36qsp (425hp) to tow about 9000lbs. Obviously the 425hp would be a better choice but the 425hp is 1000 miles away and 3 years older than the 380hp. Prefer to buy the 380 as it is closer and newer. Is the difference between 380hp 1050ft/lbs and the 425hp 1250ft/lbs really noticeable? Will the 380 do the job? I don't mind slowing to 45 or 50 at the top of hills on our interstate system as I'm sure there will be others along with semi trucks also laboring to get over the top. Any slower than that may be unsafe. How will towing that much weight affect the longevity of these engines? Thanks, Bill
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:03 AM   #2
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Get the one with the floor plan that works for you.
A lot more time is spent in it not moving then is moving.

I have gotten over the top of all hills pulling 4,680 lb with my 660 ft/lb 275 HP for over 13 years.
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:19 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billcary1 View Post
Plan to buy Phaeton 36qsh (380hp) or Allegro Bus 36qsp (425hp) to tow about 9000lbs. Obviously the 425hp would be a better choice but the 425hp is 1000 miles away and 3 years older than the 380hp. Prefer to buy the 380 as it is closer and newer. Is the difference between 380hp 1050ft/lbs and the 425hp 1250ft/lbs really noticeable? Will the 380 do the job? I don't mind slowing to 45 or 50 at the top of hills on our interstate system as I'm sure there will be others along with semi trucks also laboring to get over the top. Any slower than that may be unsafe. How will towing that much weight affect the longevity of these engines? Thanks, Bill
Diesel engines are made to work.........they enjoy working

Sounds like you have made your mind up already kinda..........
This is a large purchase, get exactly what you want and need now! , not later. The only thing I wish we had different on our present Coach, is a big HP engine.........I like horse power So, for me , when we up grade in the near future, a 600 cummins is a must for me.
If HP is not important to you..........the 380hp will work just fine.
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:29 AM   #4
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Unless your "Tim the Tool Man" the 380 will do just fine. If you want to impress the 18 wheelers going up the hill well the 450 I guess.

As stated earlier. The floor plan might be where you should be looking. Airline tickets are cheap right now. Don't let 1000 mile be a factor.

I run with 360hp now ran with 300 hp for a bit. Any of them will get you over the top of any hill. And those hills are a very small part of your travels

Russell
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Old 01-02-2016, 08:45 AM   #5
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380hp or 425hp?

Quote:
Originally Posted by billcary1 View Post
Plan to buy Phaeton 36qsh (380hp) or Allegro Bus 36qsp (425hp) to tow about 9000lbs. Obviously the 425hp would be a better choice but the 425hp is 1000 miles away and 3 years older than the 380hp. Prefer to buy the 380 as it is closer and newer. Is the difference between 380hp 1050ft/lbs and the 425hp 1250ft/lbs really noticeable? Will the 380 do the job? I don't mind slowing to 45 or 50 at the top of hills on our interstate system as I'm sure there will be others along with semi trucks also laboring to get over the top. Any slower than that may be unsafe. How will towing that much weight affect the longevity of these engines? Thanks, Bill

You should look at the specs of these two coaches and divide the GCWR by the hp to get the weigh being pulled by one hp. If you look at the new Phaeton & AB, the Phaston actually has a slightly better ratio based on 380 and 425 hp. Of course you would have to check the axle ratio as this would also figure in.

Don't worry about longevity due to load. Keep the maintenance up and you will be golden.
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Old 01-02-2016, 01:08 PM   #6
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I have a '04 4011 Newmar with the Cummins ISL 370 HP. We tow a full size 1/2 ton crew cab pickup with a RZR (along with a bunch of other stuff) in the PU bed and the cab. That put's me in and around 7500 lbs flat towing.

I can say the 8.9 liter Cummins will tow this load (and the 40' MH) with ease. This motor puts up 1200 lb-ft of torque at a governed 2200 rpm. The torque at 1800 rpm is over 1400 lb-ft which is the rpm range I normally. I barely know the pickup is behind me in tow.

I can tell you this rig has plenty of power to do what I want it to. Yes, I might slow a little on the really steep grades, but very little. Keep these things maintained and they will work forever.
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:28 AM   #7
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I have the 380hp, and it is ample. I tow a full size P/U, or one of two Jeeps. The statement "don't know it's there" is false, you know it is there. I have pulled several mountain passes in NM, Colorado, Utah....etc with and without a toad. This difference in performance is negligible. I notice more in the MPGs when I am toadless. I also get a bit better acceleration. I would love 425hp. Or 500!!! But until we upgrade, 380hp works pretty good.

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Old 01-03-2016, 09:49 AM   #8
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If you drive 7500 miles a year it's only 2% of the year. The 380 Hp works for me, 35k lbs total. Pulls moderate hills without slowing down. The floor plan is most important consideration. Check maintenance records on used units.
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Old 01-03-2016, 11:54 AM   #9
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FWIW...

The "rule of thumb" I often hear is that a good ratio of HP to weight is 10HP/1000# of coach weight. Currently our coach and toad comes in at Just short of 41K# so are ratio is 10.25HP/1000# of combined coach & toad weight. In case it makes any difference at peak torque (1200 ft pounds) we are about 1 ft pound torque per 34.2# of weight.

We haven't had that much experience in big hills and none at high altitudes. I'm not a speed demon and have not problem following truck speeds. This is my experience so far:

1. Several trips on I-24 between Nashville and Chattanooga with some twisty 5-6% grades we could hold about 50 MPH unless we got bogged down by a slow poke then we could match the 45 MPH truck speed in the truck lane. We often got stuck behind bogged down trucks because of how traffic likes to test their mountain racing skills in the 2 left lanes. LOL I think the highest possible elevation on that route is less than 2500'.

2. I-64 Charleston WV to Lewisburg WV with some 6-7% grades but a more straight course most of the time but with a couple, well marked, big curves. We clearly felt the difference at on a couple of the biggest climbs maxed out at 45 MPH. The traffic between Beckley and Lewisburg was less intense so we didn't have any problems getting out of the truck lane if we saw one bogging down. Charleston to Beckley was a bit more challenging because of traffic levels but it was a bit easier to get around bogged down trucks. I can't seem to find information on the highest elevation that is directly on I-64 but it has to be less than 4900' since that is the highest elevation in the state.

For us, most mountainous climbs and descents truck speeds will often be closer to my max speeds anyway.

One other thing to consider with a bigger motor would be the higher braking HP it would have with the exhaust brake engaged. On 6-7% downgrades I need to pay a lot of attention to the speed because it will build up quickly. This is especially true if you let the transmission down shift on the climb and it upshifts as you crest. Even if you manually manage the transmission and stay in that lower gear through a crest it takes a lot of stab breaking to keep the speed under control but it isn't anything that seems excessive either.

All that being said, the 10HP/1000# is not a hard and fast rule. Unless you expect to spend a lot of time in challenging terrain, I would suggest that floor plan and other non-HP related issues are more important. You could also compare the GVWRs of the 2 coaches and do the HP/weight ratio to see if there is any reason to make HP an issue or not.
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