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Old 03-10-2016, 09:34 AM   #29
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I am going to repeat myself, where does one go to conduct this "performance test" ? As a parting thought, I am insulted by the "conspiracy theory" . I wholeheartedly believe in the necessity of a braking system for "most" towed vehicles as well as the old adage "better safe than sorry". Also I was a Boy Scout and "Be prepared" is a great motto! I'll bow out of this conversation before I have to file a"hurt feelings report".
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Old 03-10-2016, 10:02 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSteer View Post
I am going to repeat myself, where does one go to conduct this "performance test" ? As a parting thought, I am insulted by the "conspiracy theory" . I wholeheartedly believe in the necessity of a braking system for "most" towed vehicles as well as the old adage "better safe than sorry". Also I was a Boy Scout and "Be prepared" is a great motto! I'll bow out of this conversation before I have to file a"hurt feelings report".
I'm not trying to fan the flames, but IMHO and this may be only my opinion, I figured that if I waited until I had an emergency stop situation to determine if I could stop quick enough without an auxiliary brake system on your toad, it would probably be a little late.


I never liked living dangerously. Some may not have a problem with it, and see an auxiliary braking system as an unneeded expense. I have a good friend that tows a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited without any brake system in the toad. While the risk is acceptable to him, it isn't to me.


Good luck with your decision!
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Old 03-10-2016, 10:07 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by BPoland View Post
I'm not trying to fan the flames, but IMHO and this may be only my opinion, I figured that if I waited until I had an emergency stop situation to determine if I could stop quick enough without an auxiliary brake system on your toad, would probably be a little late.
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Originally Posted by SuperSteer View Post
I am going to repeat myself, where does one go to conduct this "performance test"?
BPoland & SuperSteer
A DIY "performance test" on any deserted stretch of highway will determine whether or not your particular coach/toad combination needs aux brakes.
Mel
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Old 03-10-2016, 10:35 AM   #32
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BPoland & SuperSteer
A DIY "performance test" on any deserted stretch of highway will determine whether or not your particular coach/toad combination needs aux brakes.
Mel
'96 Safari
Simple physics will prove me out. Your coach without a toad, will stop quicker than your coach with your toad and no auxiliary brake system.

Now, if your coach weighs 50,000lbs and your toad weighs 2,000lbs, the effect will be smaller, than in my case. My coach weighs 19,000lbs so the effect of the toad will be greater.

Again, you may be comfortable with that situation. I am not.
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Old 03-10-2016, 10:59 AM   #33
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Auxiliary Brakes

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A young girl on a bicycle is alive because I could stop sooner.

I think the girl is happier being not dead. And I am not in jail. Don't second guess the benefits of more stopping power. GET AUX BRAKES with a break-away system!!!!!


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Old 03-10-2016, 11:30 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPoland View Post
Simple physics will prove me out. Your coach without a toad, will stop quicker than your coach with your toad and no auxiliary brake system.

Now, if your coach weighs 50,000lbs and your toad weighs 2,000lbs, the effect will be smaller, than in my case. My coach weighs 19,000lbs so the effect of the toad will be greater.

Again, you may be comfortable with that situation. I am not.
BPoland
True.

However it's also true that if you drive at the minimum allowed highway speed rather than as fast as law allows you can stop in a shorter distance.

Why is it that no one ever recommends traveling at the minimum speed allowed to stop in shorter more comfortable distance?

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Old 03-10-2016, 03:21 PM   #35
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BPoland
True.

However it's also true that if you drive at the minimum allowed highway speed rather than as fast as law allows you can stop in a shorter distance.

Why is it that no one ever recommends traveling at the minimum speed allowed to stop in shorter more comfortable distance?

Mel
'96 Safari

I must be honest. I'm not one to travel anywhere near the minimum. I have managed to settle myself down considerably while behind the wheel of our coach. My wife makes sure of it and reminds me when if I forget I'm driving the coach. Regardless of the speed, I like the auxiliary brakes for the peace mind it gives me.
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Old 03-10-2016, 05:21 PM   #36
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Auxiliary Brakes

Hey, that reminds me, we have had some threads that suggest that we need to increase our speed to obtain optimal safety.... Forget about the auxiliary brakes, just drive faster than 70 mph, and everyone will be safer...

Oh, I forgot, I didn't agree with that theory either...
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Old 03-10-2016, 11:14 PM   #37
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Here's WA's law on trailers:
Quote:
RCW 46.04.620
Trailer.

"Trailer" includes every vehicle without motive power designed for being drawn by or used in conjunction with a motor vehicle constructed so that no appreciable part of its weight rests upon or is carried by such motor vehicle, but does not include a municipal transit vehicle, or any portion thereof.
So, a motorized vehicle is not a trailer under WA law.
And here is where it says what the braking requirements are when a motorized vehicle is towed:
Quote:
(c) Any vehicle being towed in driveaway or towaway operations, provided the combination of vehicles is capable of complying with the performance requirements of RCW 46.37.351;
And here's the actual requirement:
Quote:
RCW 46.37.351
Performance ability of brakes.


Every motor vehicle and combination of vehicles, at all times and under all conditions of loading, upon application of the service brakes, shall be capable of:

(1) Developing a braking force that is not less than the percentage of its gross weight tabulated herein for its classification,

(2) Decelerating to a stop from not more than twenty miles per hour at not less than the feet per second per second tabulated herein for its classification, and

(3) Stopping from a speed of twenty miles per hour in not more than the distance tabulated herein for its classification, such distance to be measured from the point at which movement of the service brake pedal or control begins.

Tests for deceleration and stopping distance shall be made on a substantially level (not to exceed plus or minus one percent grade), dry, smooth, hard surface that is free from loose material.

Brake
system
application
Braking and
force braking
as a Deceler- distance
percent- ation in in feet
age of gross feet per from an
vehicle or second initial
Classification combinationper speed of
of vehicles weight second 20 m.p.h.

A Passenger vehicles with

a seating capacity of

10 people or less

including driver, not

having a manufacturer's

gross vehicle weight

rating . . . . . . . . . . . . 52.8% 17 25

B-1 All motorcycles and

motor-driven cycles . . . . . . . . . . . .43.5% 14 30

B-2 Single unit vehicles

with a manufacturer's

gross vehicle weight

rating of 10,000

pounds or less . . . . . . . . . . . . 43.5% 14 30

C-1 Single unit vehicles

with a manufacturer's

gross weight rating of

more than 10,000

ounds . . . . . . . . . . . . 43.5% 14 40

C-2 Combinations of a

two-axle towing vehicle

and a trailer with a

gross trailer weight of

3,000 pounds or less . . . . . . . . . . . . 43.5% 14 40

C-3 Buses, regardless of the

number of axles, not

having a manufacturer's

gross weight rating . . . . . . . . . . . .43.5% 14 40


C-4 All combinations of

vehicles in driveaway-

towaway operations . . . . . . . . . . . . 43.5% 14 40


D All other vehicles and

combinations of

vehicles . . . . . . . . . . . . 43.5% 14 50
So we'd have to stop from 20 mph in less than 40 or 50 feet. Not sure whether we're a C-4 or D in the chart.
Our chassis has a GVWR of 54,000#'s so it's certified to stop that much without add'l braking. It's ULVWR is 46,700#'s. Our Ody weighs about 4,400#'s so even without add'l braking were OK under WA laws. The MH has 6 "wheel" air disk brakes and it can STOP. But that doesn't mean we're legal in all states so I still need the BrakeMaster unit we have to be legal in all states.

Basically all this means is that you have to be a lawyer to know if you need add'l braking! So to be safe and legal, get the braking units and use them.
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Old 03-11-2016, 09:06 AM   #38
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This thread has gone pretty far afield from the OP's question. The question of aux brakes, when not actually required by state law, sounds a lot like the helmet-no helmet argument on motorcycle forums. The fact is everyone accepts risk when they participate in any activity. How much risk they choose to to accept and how much they are willing to do to mitigate the risk is an individual decision. You aren't likely to change someones mind no matter how persuasive you feel your argument is.

To the original question: Do the following states mandate aux brakes for towing a vehicle?

Florida
Alabama
Mississippi
Louisiana
Texas - Section 545.409 of the Texas transportation code defines saddle mount towing as: "Mounting of the front wheels of trailing vehicles on the bed of another vehicle while leaving the rear wheels only of the trailing vehicles in contact with the roadway." The statue does not address braking requirements for vehicles being towed in this manner. Section 541.201.(20.) defines a trailer as "A vehicle, other than a pole trailer, with or without motive power:
(A) designed to be drawn by a motor vehicle and to transport persons or property; and
(B) constructed so that no part of the vehicle's weight and load rests on the motor vehicle.
Applying that logic to a tow dolly, if your vehicle and dolly exceed 4500 lbs, you need an aux braking system in Texas.
New Mexico
Arizona
California
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