Backing up the toad?

[ivykrewe]

Waiter21
I saw a man rip one base plate off and destroy his towbar. Made a believer out of me.

[ahicks]

Originally Posted by mpierce

Two or three feet, on level ground, probably OK. Any farther, and it will be jack knived, damaging everything,

Absolute Horse Pucky, especilly the part about "damaging everything".

To make this assumption is silly or proof of incompetence when backing.

Of course tow bar manf's aren't going to endorse backing. To do so would allow people with a mindset like this to blame them for their own incompetence.

Keep in mind most of us have rear view cameras to see EXCACTLY what the toad is doing while backing. If there is any doubt, get off your butt and go look (or maybe invest in a better camera system?)!

All that said, I do believe how well YOUR toad backs may depend on the vehicle manf. Jeeps seem to do poorly, while Hondas can be backed around a corner....

I would endorse an open mind on the topic until such time as you've tried YOUR rig with plenty of time and room to see just what you/it can do SLOWLY!

[jtroop]

Originally Posted by Waiter21

hohenwald48

You have one up on me, I haven't heard of anyone who damaged a tow bar while backing. But I've read in this forum about bent bars while going forward.

I suspect the common theme would be, The operator pulled into the gas station and overshot the gas pump, Ah, what the heck, its only 5 feet, so they put it in "REVERSE" and carefully watch the gas pump in left mirror and slowly back up. A few seconds later they hear a horrible crunch sound. When they look in the right mirror, they see what looks like a Jeep sideways under their right rear bumper. Was this caused by backing, NO, It was an operator who didn't know how to backup.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE - DO NOT backup your toad if you haven't practiced this in the safety of a large parking lot where you can carefully observe how your toad behaves while backing. It can jackknife in just a few feet.

I applaud those who know their limitations and operate their equipment within those limitations.

If you do decide to venture out and attempt this new skill, you absolutely MUST watch the toad and ensure the wheels don';t caster and it isn't jackknifing.

I agree 100% with the tow bar manufactures, If you back your toad, and you jackknife, you will damage the tow bar.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have backed up many times while being very careful watching the toad in the camera, probably two to three feet max.... and it does not hurt the tow bar. Common Sense applies, you just can't back up like it's a trailer, you have to take it slow and watch the toad carefully.

[Dsallach]

All I can say is this, I have backed up thousands of loaded 4 wheel trailer hay wagons with every piece of equipment imaginable. I can back up 500hp farm tractor pulling a 30 foot soil finisher pulling a single row packer pulling a drag. Unless it is a dire emergency I will not back up a toad behind a motorhome. I can unhook and hook back up in under 3 minutes including auxiliary brakes. It is not worth the risk. Drive defensively and Plan ahead, In 60,000 miles I have only gotten myself into a situation where I needed to unhook twice. Backing up a four wheel trailer with a truck or car does not take into account limited visibility, a 260" wheelbase and a large tail swing that magnifies any movement of the towbar. Do whatever you want, it's your equipment and money. For me, I can spare 3 minutes and take no risk. If your in traffic and have two people like others have used to steer the toad, take 1minute to disconnect, drive down the road and hook up elsewhere.

[Unplanned Tourist]

Not many toads like being backed up. I guess I lucked out with the Ranger. I have tried a 3 point turn around VERY CAREFULLY and the front wheels co-operated quite nicely. I wouldn't suggest anyone try that unless you are in a very controlled situation. I have a very robust tow bar and tow plate. All steel and no sliding tubes, just good old solid. Might be a little trickier to hook up, but it is solid!
I would never try that with an aluminum tow bar.

[hohenwald48]

Many years ago I read a thread on this same subject. Someone suggested that the best way to do this was to crank up the toad and "pull" the motorhome backwards instead of using the motorhome to "push" the toad backwards. Don't know if that works or not.

[RubiconTrail]

I would suggest that anyone who has successfully done this should check the alignment on their toad. If this works, your caster is negative. The hay wagon analogy is not valid...with a hay wagon you are connected to the front axle, not the frame or bumper.

[Unplanned Tourist]

Originally Posted by RubiconTrail

I would suggest that anyone who has successfully done this should check the alignment on their toad. If this works, your caster is negative. The hay wagon analogy is not valid...with a hay wagon you are connected to the front axle, not the frame or bumper.

My alignment is spot on, just has little caster.

[Dsallach]

I would argue that the hay wagon analogy is valid since others were basically insinuating that it was operator skills that determines if one can back a toad. At least one poster stated the toad is nothing more than a four wheel trailer. I will 100% agree that a hay wagon is steerable which a toad is not. That makes backing a toad even less reasonable than backing up hay wagons. I also agree with you caster point. My point is simply that it is not worth the risk! Not meaning to be rude or insult anyone but, I would suggest people drive more defensively, learn the forward limitations of their rig and spend less time getting out of situations you should not have gotten into in the first place. Yes on rare occasions one will find yourself in situations beyond your control, in those cases simply unhook. The risk of backing a toad far outweighs the reward of saving a couple minutes or ones pride.

[skypilot_1]

Got blocked in front when parked at a casino. Only needed enough space to cut coach wheels and clear blocking car. Had DW get in TOAD, started engine (power steering assist) and gently hold steering wheel, keeping TOAD centered on coach. Backed up about 10 ft. No problems.

[Waiter21]

Ivykrewe;

I'm curious as to what happened when this person destroyed their bar while backing. Did they jackknife it?

[Waiter21]

Rubicntrail;

I've always had a cuisoty on why my Civic would behave itself while backing but the Vue would almost immediately caster..

I know the front end alignments are at factory specs, the only other difference in my case was the Civic has hydraulic power steering, while the Vue has electric. When the engines arn't running, the Civic is much harder to turn the wheel than the Vue. I also suspect the caster angles for the electrics are different and this is why mine seems to caster more easily.

WARNING - Anyone who proposes to back up a toad MUST know how their vehicle behaves while backing. DO NOT simple say it will caster or go straight. this MUST be tested to see what happens. The vehicle has to be on a tow bar for this test. Every vehicle seems to behave differently.

[Unplanned Tourist]

Originally Posted by Waiter21

WARNING - Anyone who proposes to back up a toad MUST know how their vehicle behaves while backing. DO NOT simple say it will caster or go straight. this MUST be tested to see what happens. The vehicle has to be on a tow bar for this test. Every vehicle seems to behave differently.

X2!

[dix39]

Well, now you have it, either you can or you can't. For my part, all I can say is that I have, so it must be possible.

IMHO, the only way for the OP, or anyone else for that matter, to really know is to try it. It probably isn't for everyone. As others have said, find a large open area and with someone else to watch the toad, try it. Imagine that you are at a fuel pump and pulled forward a few too far. Try backing up just a few feet and observe what the toad does. Try backing a few more feet and observe. What actually happens will become apparent. Yes, it possible to destroy things, but not if you are warned to stop before it occurs.

When the front toad wheels turn sideways and the camper is still pushing them straight it is probably time to stop, or have someone line them up with the direction of travel. For me, when the whole toad starts turning I usually pull forward and start over in a straight line.

I have two tow bars, one is a Stowmaster and the other a solid one that I bought from Trail Tough Suzuki many years ago. The Stowmaster is most convenient, but for long trips I prefer the solid one because I feel it is the strongest. It has been used to tow a Samurai and now a Tracker for more than 100k miles over 15-20 years. In spite of having backed the toad many times for a few feet and a few times for longer distances up to 30 feet or more, it has never been damaged, nor has anything else.

I only back in a straight line, except for only a few feet at a slight angle. There is just too much geometry there for me in curves. Others may be able to do this, but I don't even try because I think it could subject the tow connections to a lot of stress, especially with a heavier toad on a paved surface. For anything farther than a few feet I have my wife hold the steering wheel straight and pull forward to straighten out when the toad starts turning, then back again. It takes a while, but I haven't damaged anything yet.

IMHO, the choice to back or disconnect is a judgement call based on which is safest and easiest. I have done both.

I did watch, but not closely, a person with a larger MH back his toad out into the road from a tire shop which included a 90 degree turn from the shop into the road. Several tire shop employees were instructing him and diverting traffic. It is not something I would have done, but he did and it seemed to work out all right.

Best of luck with your toad.

Steve