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04-27-2010, 05:26 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Texas Boomers Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Don't mess with Texas
Posts: 3,118
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Braking system ?
This has been on my mind and I have to finally ask...we all or at least I know how hard you have to push on the brake if you loose engine power. Can systems like the brake buddy system apply enough pressure just by wedging itself between the seat and the brake pedal? I would almost like to ride in a toad an watch this type or any other type system in operation.
Maybe its as simple as I don't have any experience operating auxiliary brake systems and the answer is something very simple.
My inquiring mind is just curious.
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Jim with Judy
2017 Newmar Ventana 4369, 2005 Jeep Wrangler (Rock Crawler), 2016 Jeep Wrangler (Mall Crawler)
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04-28-2010, 06:48 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 486
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In a word, yes. Although I don't have Brake Buddy or similar system, I do have a VIP Towbrake which depresses the brake pedal without power assist. It works. When the brakes are applied in my toad, a Jeep, I can feel the drag from the motorhome.
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Joe & Loretta Fischer
2017 Roadtrek Zion SRT
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04-28-2010, 10:07 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Texas Boomers Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: DFW Area, TX
Posts: 2,040
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We have the Brakemaster system. With it the pedal pressure in the toad varies with the pedal pressure in the MH because they are both driven by the same air. I've left the piston disconnected in the toad a couple of times and can definitely feel the difference between both vehicles braking and the MH having to do all the braking for both. Unlike the BrakeBuddy, the Brakemaster has a seat bar that it uses for leverage against the toad's brake pedal. I've had DW step on the MH's pedal while I watched the toad piston actuate. Even without the vacuum assist engaged, there is a fair amount of force on that brake pedal.
Because the system is all air operated, loosing the engine should not change anything until the tanks are depleted.
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2000 Georgie Boy Landau 36' DP
2018 Equinox toad
KF5-NJY
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04-28-2010, 11:21 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Posts: 1,802
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Although it's hard to feel the braking action while you are in the MH, I have pulled my Cherokee with our G Cherokee using the Brake Buddy. You can really tell when it operates. I have towed it over 300 miles at least twice and you know when it's working.
I do my best to slow down without causing the BB to activate.
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Jeanie, Ed & Slade the GSD(RIP)
Cape Cod, MA
2017 Entegra Aspire RBQ & Silverado Crew or GC
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04-28-2010, 04:55 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
National RV Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,875
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I too have the Brakemaster air setup. It's a good idea to pump the brakes on the toad after you shut it's engine off and before you connect the supplemental brake system to bleed out the vacuum in the power brakes.
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2001 National Tradewinds 7370 300 Cat
2011 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport
Officially fulltiming. The Journey Begins
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04-28-2010, 06:13 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California Desert
Posts: 357
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The setup procedure for the Blue Ox Apollo (Brake Buddy type box) states that you should test the braking activity a number of times (there is a test button) prior to getting underway. This is to relieve the residual pressure in the brake system and allow the Apollo to push on the brake pedal without any power assist. Why? I don't know, but I can rationalize that the Apollo is designed to be used on brakes without power assist.
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2004 Southwind 32VS
2014 C-Max toad
Workhorse chassis
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04-28-2010, 10:20 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,447
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The automotive brake uses vacuum to help you apply the brakes. Even with the engine off you have vaccum available to help stop the vehicle for one-two maybe three brake pedal appilcations before the vacuum is depleted.Some of the add on pedal pushers do not need this help/booster. If you do not apply the brake a couple times with the engine off to deplete this vacuum -the first couple times your added on brake system applies your brake it will cause the tires to lock up because it is designed to apply the brakes with no vacuum/boost.
Some add on systems will continue to creat vaccuum and use the that to help with the pedal pusher mechanism.
And besides it good thing to make sure everything is properly installed before you hit the road.
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04-29-2010, 09:38 AM
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#8
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: West Palm Beach, FL. USA
Posts: 27,678
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Federal vehicle safety regs require that the brakes be usable by human foot-power if the power assist fails or runs out, so the pressure required isn't that high. It feels terribly high compared to the effort with a power assist, but it isn't actually all that much for a mechanical device.
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Gary Brinck
Former owner of 2004 American Tradition and several other RVs
Home is West Palm Beach, FL
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04-30-2010, 08:58 AM
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#9
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sheboygan, WI
Posts: 5,642
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I've had three different system on three coaches.
The first was the Brake Buddy. It puts out some serious pressure on the arm that connects to the brake pedal. In fact, the instructions tell you to pump the brakes to dump the vacuum out of the booster first because the Brake Buddy is designed to work with a non-power assisted pedal. The system worked but, like anything else, it has it's pros and cons. It's nice in that it's portable and can be used on just about anything and requires no installation chores (usually). You do have to set it in place and dial it in. If the seat moves you can either lose your braking capacity or drag the brakes. We had that a few times when you press the remote unlock button and the seat retracts for access on the Grand Cherokee. It's strictly inertia operated so going down a grade and using your gears or an engine brake to slow the coach down will cause the Brake Buddy to engage the toad brakes. The BB plugs into the lighter socket so if you tow a lot you may wear down your battery unless you hook up a charge kline to the RV. You also have to unhook it and remove it, then find a place to store it when you want to drive your toad. We wanted something easier to use so we sold it and went to the US Gear Unified Tow Brake.
The Unified Tow Brake is a permanent mounted system. It utilizes an electric solenoid to pull a cable that runs through a pullet that pulls on the brake pedal. It has a vacuum pump to keep the brake booster full of vacuum so it's not pulling on a dead pedal. That's a little different philosophy than Brake Buddy but they both work. The brakes energize via the trailer lighting circuit and a charge lione to the RV is also recommended. The controller is mounted up by the RV's dash and is also inertia operated although you can manually control it if desired. With this system you pretty much connect your tow bar, wiring harness, and breakaway cable to the toad and you are good to go. If you have adjustable brake pedals - forget it. The cable pulls on the pedal and if you adjust the pedal your brakes may drag or else the tow brake will be loose and won't apply the brakes. Also, the pulley takes room in the footwell and needs to line up with the brake pedal and the solenoid is big and needs to find a home as well. On my Grand Cherokee that was a real challenge. After Leann adjusted the pedals one day and my friont rotors were smoked I decided to go another way, which was the M&G.
The M&G was the best yet. It uses the coach's air pressure to apply the toad brakes. I just added a quick disconnect hose coupler next to the trailer lighting socket and the same on the toads (both Grand Cherokee and Wrangler) and connect them with a quick disconnect air line that rides right inside the center of the slinky lighting umbilical cord. This system is totally proportional and the toad brakes only go on when the coach brakes do. The toad module mounts between the master cylinder and vacuum booster so nothing goes inside the cabin. The module is failsafe in that it acts as a big pushrod when using the brake pedal yet applies the brakes via the master cylinder and air pressure whenever the coach's brake pedal is applied. The drawback is that it's only for a diesel with air brakes. You can get a compressor to use this system on a gasser but the extra cost isn't worth it because you are back to the US Gear method of braking so you might as well just get the US GEar or an SMI Stay-in-Play and ave some money.
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Mark & Leann Quasius
2016 Cornerstone 45A
2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon
2021 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
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04-30-2010, 09:37 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Texas Boomers Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Don't mess with Texas
Posts: 3,118
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Thanks everyone, especially Cruzer for the pros and cons of the ones you have used.
The M&G has been the way I've been leaning.
Next question. I'm considering buying a 2010 Chevrolet Equinox to tow. By adding the M&G module between the vacuum booster and the master cylinder could there be any warranty issues with GM? The salesman says no, but of course he can't get his GM to put that in writing.
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Jim with Judy
2017 Newmar Ventana 4369, 2005 Jeep Wrangler (Rock Crawler), 2016 Jeep Wrangler (Mall Crawler)
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04-30-2010, 10:08 AM
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#11
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sheboygan, WI
Posts: 5,642
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Any warranty issues with any vehicle cannot be denied unless it has been proven that the third party device has adversely affected the vehicle and caused the problem. In the case of the US Gear unit causing my brakes to drag when the pedals were adjusted, that's not a warranty issue because the US Gear unit caused the brake rotors to get hot and warp.
__________________
Mark & Leann Quasius
2016 Cornerstone 45A
2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon
2021 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
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04-30-2010, 02:46 PM
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#12
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Community Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 53,543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhartjim
Thanks everyone, especially Cruzer for the pros and cons of the ones you have used.
The M&G has been the way I've been leaning.
Next question. I'm considering buying a 2010 Chevrolet Equinox to tow. By adding the M&G module between the vacuum booster and the master cylinder could there be any warranty issues with GM? The salesman says no, but of course he can't get his GM to put that in writing.
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I had the SMI stay in play duo installed on the HHR and it works great. I can feel the difference in my stopping . I also rode in the toad and observed the brake action. They make a product for dp. It's called Air Force One.
Great company to do bus. with and a sponsor of IRV2.
Cliff
__________________
Cliff,Tallulah and Buddy ( 1999-2012 )
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04-30-2010, 03:42 PM
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#13
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Administrator in Memoriam
Newmar Owners Club Retired Fire Service RVer's Spartan Chassis
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Newark, DE
Posts: 25,898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhartjim
Thanks everyone, especially Cruzer for the pros and cons of the ones you have used.
The M&G has been the way I've been leaning.
Next question. I'm considering buying a 2010 Chevrolet Equinox to tow. By adding the M&G module between the vacuum booster and the master cylinder could there be any warranty issues with GM? The salesman says no, but of course he can't get his GM to put that in writing.
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....and it's not the salesman's call.
I would think warranty issues would depend on the "issue".
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Adios, Dirk - '84 Real Lite Truck Camper, '86 Wilderness Cimarron TT, previously 4 years as a fulltimer in a '07 DSDP
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04-30-2010, 05:52 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Texas Boomers Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Don't mess with Texas
Posts: 3,118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Route 66
....and it's not the salesman's call.
I would think warranty issues would depend on the "issue".
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And your point is?
__________________
Jim with Judy
2017 Newmar Ventana 4369, 2005 Jeep Wrangler (Rock Crawler), 2016 Jeep Wrangler (Mall Crawler)
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