Community Forums

Mekanic · 03-15-2012, 03:00 PM

I have to admit I am really surprised that a 35,000 pound RV absouluty Must have More brakes just to flat tow a 3500 pound vehicle.
Heck even the current lineup of 1/2 ton pickups have big enough brakes to tow that amount.

I think it says more of the way the RVs brakes are designed than it does about the Ford Escape.

fishfryer · 03-15-2012, 03:34 PM

Hello:
I am not an expert on towing just some experience with the brake buddy and a CRV. I have used the system for almost 50,000 miles and wonder if the brake buddy is the cause of the brake failure. As has been stated the BB system is wedged between the seat and the petal. The seat and the linkage have to be adjusted so that there is just the slightest slack with the BB not activated--ie the linkage should relax as the BB shuts down. The brake petal should be completely up. Second the OP said he started the motor during the trip. It is necessary to bleed the boost air in the brake system--and this must be done initially as the system is installed and must be done any time the engine is started. This is where I check to see if the linkage is relaxed and the seat is positioned correctly. I too think the brake problem might be with the use of the BB system.
JerryH

fishfryer · 03-15-2012, 03:56 PM

Hello Again:
After sending the previous I realized there other adjustments to make -- The pressure maintained in the BB tank--adjustable via a knob --this is how much pressure is required to push the toad brake petal down--too high and the petal is slammed to the floor too quickly in my opinion. And secondly the sensitivity of the system--monitored via series of lights as to very sensitive to lower. These relate to the degree of deceleration required to even activate the BB /toad brakes. I find I seldom have to change these with my once set up. Pressure is set at 35psi and 3 or 4 lights for sensitivity. Less if wet on sensitivity since I so not want the Toad to lock up. Again all of this is with the boost bled down.
Hope this helps, Jerry H

Stillwater · 03-15-2012, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekanic

I have to admit I am really surprised that a 35,000 pound RV absouluty Must have More brakes just to flat tow a 3500 pound vehicle.
Heck even the current lineup of 1/2 ton pickups have big enough brakes to tow that amount.

I think it says more of the way the RVs brakes are designed than it does about the Ford Escape.

What???

HeapBigEngin · 03-15-2012, 08:08 PM

fishfryer....VERY interesting posts! I am only very casually familiar with the Brake Buddy system. But your comments about bleeding off the air in the power brake booster REALLY got my attention.

You stated that the brake pedal must be completely up. As you know, with the new anti-lock brake systems, the brake pedal, upon vehicle start-up, will sometimes go downward to its normal operating position, especially if the vehicle has been sitting for awhile. However, when shutting the vehicle off and pumping the brake pedal to exhaust the vacuum out of the brake booster, the brake pedal will rise significantly, probably close to 1 1/2" or so, depending on vehicle. Upon start-up again, the pedal will fall to its normal position. Are you saying that the brake pedal must be pumped with the vehicle off to raise the pedal before setting up the Brake Buddy system?? If that is the case and the BB is set with the pedal low (and the engine not running during towing), as the BB system is activated several times and pumps the brakes, would that not result in the pedal wanting to rise?? In that situation, of course, it won't be able to. And that, in turn, would likely keep hydraulic pressure in the brake system.

Maybe I've got this wrong....sure wouldn't be the first time. But I'd sure like your thoughts on this. Maybe that is what's going on here....Thanks!!

fishfryer · 03-15-2012, 09:47 PM

HeapBigEngin:
I am not sure as to your concerns, but I install the BB with the engine off and activate the BB up to pressure (the BB pump has stopped) and then the switch labeled Test is activated, in my case at least 5 times. This causes the brake pedal to be pumped, which I believe depletes all boost pressure. I check to make sure the linkage is relaxed after this procedure. Obviously this must be done any time the engine is activated and boost pressure is restored. Does this answer your question?
Jerry H

SarahW · 03-15-2012, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by born2camp

You are incorrect, the TSB specifically states
"Technical Service Bulletins is intended for use by trained, professional technicians with the knowledge, tools, and equipment to do the job properly and safely. It informs these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or provides information that could assist in proper vehicle service. The procedures should not be performed by “do-it-yourselfers”.

And, with it being advised by Ford to have this done both in the TSB and the Escape Service and Owners manual, I have not been charged to have this procedure done. Your comparisons are night/day different as to the fluid level check vs tire etc etc checks.

Well, it's certainly not the first time I've been incorrect!

The OP said Ford's response to his request for the TSB service was... "The local dealer said that wasn't covered under warranty. I appealed to Ford customer service and they again said NO, it was only a recommendation."

Guess I'll stay out of this.

HeapBigEngin · 03-16-2012, 12:07 AM

Jerry....yes, your response answers my question. I just wish I had a better understanding of the mechanics of the BB system to better understand how it operates. I don't have any concerns....the OP does. But following your descriptions, I now know that the vacuum must be eliminated first and that the linkage is correctly set/relaxed after that happens, releasing any residual pressure in the brake system. It would certainly seem that not doing it as you have described would have the opposite affect...with dragging brakes and major brake system damage. Makes sense to me. Really just trying to understand the system better and to help the OP in the process. Thanks for your quick response!

Mekanic · 03-17-2012, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekanic

I have to admit I am really surprised that a 35,000 pound RV absouluty Must have More brakes just to flat tow a 3500 pound vehicle.
Heck even the current lineup of 1/2 ton pickups have big enough brakes to tow that amount.

I think it says more of the way the RVs brakes are designed than it does about the Ford Escape.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stillwater

What???

Simple math really.
Just look at My (77 4x4)4700 lb F150. Does this mean that if I tow a 470 lb trailer it Must have brakes in order to be safe?? of course not.
That is only 10% more than its base weight.
The brakes are designed to stop much,much more than 4700.

RV makers that claim you can't tow anything with out more brakes I belive are just looking for a way out if some wreckless person decides to drive improperly and sue them.

Wizard · 03-17-2012, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekanic

Simple math really.
Just look at My (77 4x4)4700 lb F150. Does this mean that if I tow a 470 lb trailer it Must have brakes in order to be safe?? of course not.
That is only 10% more than its base weight.
The brakes are designed to stop much,much more than 4700.

RV makers that claim you can't tow anything with out more brakes I belive are just looking for a way out if some wreckless person decides to drive improperly and sue them.

I've never had a manufacturer say that I had to have supplemental brakes. My state tells me I have to have them on anything I tow over 1500 lb. I also like the fact that brakes on 8 wheels will stop quicker than brakes on 4 wheels. I have had to stand on them a few times, and like all I can get.