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Old 05-08-2014, 03:25 PM   #1
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Help-SMI Stay-In-Play DUO

Looking for some help with issues with my SMI. 95 Fleetwood Bounder 34' with 7 pin and Honda CRV 6 pin trailer connector and taillight 2-3 converter. The brake light from the Coach controls the Honda's brake light. The brake light on the Coach and Honda should work independently. I have check the wiring several times and all is connect correctly to etrailer wiring diagrams.

I'm not sure how the wiring inside a 7 to 6 pin connector is wired and that maybe the problem that I am having. Do I have to run a separate wire out of the trailer connectors to make this work so when the SMI system is activates it will activate the Honda's brake light and power the monitor light?

Thanks for any help on this.
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Old 05-08-2014, 06:28 PM   #2
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plug and socket wiring

Don't have a clue but this may help.

Trailer Wiring Diagrams | etrailer.com
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Old 05-08-2014, 07:47 PM   #3
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I think you may need to install a brake light relay. See if your Honda brake lights come on when you press the brake pedal in the Honda (not hooked up in any way to your motorhome) with the ignition key in the towing position (acc?). If the brake lights don't come on, you need to install a brake light relay. If the lights do work, then you have some other problem. In either case, you should call SMI. I believe they'll send you a relay free if you need one.
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Old 05-08-2014, 07:56 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leesdx1 View Post
Looking for some help with issues with my SMI. 95 Fleetwood Bounder 34' with 7 pin and Honda CRV 6 pin trailer connector and taillight 2-3 converter. The brake light from the Coach controls the Honda's brake light. The brake light on the Coach and Honda should work independently. I have check the wiring several times and all is connect correctly to etrailer wiring diagrams.

I'm not sure how the wiring inside a 7 to 6 pin connector is wired and that maybe the problem that I am having. Do I have to run a separate wire out of the trailer connectors to make this work so when the SMI system is activates it will activate the Honda's brake light and power the monitor light?

Thanks for any help on this.
I have the SMI Silent Partner system (very old) and I think it works very much like the stay n play except for using radio signals where the stay n play uses wired connections. Of course all of my comments below are based on the assumption that they work in a similar manner.

The SMI system requires two conditions before activating the brakes on the toad. These are (1) coach brake lights are on (voltage on the coach brake light circuit) and (2) deceleration as sensed by the SMI unit. Once these two conditions are detected, the SMI unit will apply vacuum to the cylinder attached to the toad brake pedal arm and apply the toad brakes. When the toad brakes are applied, it will activate the original brake light circuit on the toad. SMI uses the voltage detected on the toad brake light circuit to light the monitor indicator to let you know the toad brakes are activated.

Can you tell us how your toad lights are wired? I can think of three possible wiring configurations, outlined below:

Do you have diodes that allow the coach brake lights to illuminate the toad brake lights (without the toad brakes being activated and without back feeding voltage into the toad brake light circuit)

or

do you have separate bulbs for the toad brake lights being activited by the coach brake lights

or

Do you only have diodes/wiring from the coach to power the toad running lights and have no wiring from the coach to power the toad brake lights?

If you have the diodes installed properly on the toad brake lights, then when you apply the brakes in the coach, the coach brake lights and the toad brake lights should illuminate...with no voltage yet on the toad brake light circuit except right at the rear bulbs. Once the SMI unit detects deceleration, it will apply the toad brakes, the toad brake light circuit will now have voltage from the toad battery, the rear brake lights will remain illuminated (or burn a little brighter), and the SMI monitor will indicate that the toad brakes are applied.

If you have separate brake light bulbs installed on the toad, then when you apply the brakes in the coach, the coach brake lights and the separate toad brake lights will illuminate...with no voltage yet on the toad brake light circuit. Once the SMI unit detects deceleration, it will apply the toad brakes, the toad brake light circuit will now have voltage from the toad battery, the toad rear brake lights will illuminate (in addition to the separate bulb powered by the coach), and the SMI monitor will indicate that the toad brakes are applied.

If you have no coach brake light wiring to the toad brake light assembly, the SMI unit should still activate based on coach brake lights on and deceleration as I think the sensor for coach brake lights on is in the coach portion of the SMI system.

Sorry for being so wordy, but maybe having his info will help you with the troubleshooting. I think your problem is either in the 7 pin to 6 pin wiring to the toad, or in the diode connections (if you have them) to the toad brake lights. Since you're running a 3 to 2 converter from the coach, the 6 wires should be enough for the toad.

There's no substitute for using the voltmeter or test light to determine what signal is getting to your toad.

Let us know what you finally determine to cause the problem.

Fred
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:56 PM   #5
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Fred&Vicki:

I got this from Fireup and this is how I wired the 04 CRV.




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Old 05-08-2014, 11:01 PM   #6
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Fred&vicki:

This is how I wired the CRV trailer plug:
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:03 PM   #7
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Fred&Vicki:

This is how I wired the Coach trailer plug:
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasA View Post
I think you may need to install a brake light relay. See if your Honda brake lights come on when you press the brake pedal in the Honda (not hooked up in any way to your motorhome) with the ignition key in the towing position (acc?). If the brake lights don't come on, you need to install a brake light relay. If the lights do work, then you have some other problem. In either case, you should call SMI. I believe they'll send you a relay free if you need one.
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Old 05-09-2014, 12:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Cooper View Post
I have the SMI Silent Partner system (very old) and I think it works very much like the stay n play except for using radio signals where the stay n play uses wired connections. Of course all of my comments below are based on the assumption that they work in a similar manner.

The SMI system requires two conditions before activating the brakes on the toad. These are (1) coach brake lights are on (voltage on the coach brake light circuit) and (2) deceleration as sensed by the SMI unit. Once these two conditions are detected, the SMI unit will apply vacuum to the cylinder attached to the toad brake pedal arm and apply the toad brakes. When the toad brakes are applied, it will activate the original brake light circuit on the toad. SMI uses the voltage detected on the toad brake light circuit to light the monitor indicator to let you know the toad brakes are activated.

Can you tell us how your toad lights are wired? I can think of three possible wiring configurations, outlined below:

Do you have diodes that allow the coach brake lights to illuminate the toad brake lights (without the toad brakes being activated and without back feeding voltage into the toad brake light circuit)

or

do you have separate bulbs for the toad brake lights being activited by the coach brake lights

or

Do you only have diodes/wiring from the coach to power the toad running lights and have no wiring from the coach to power the toad brake lights?

If you have the diodes installed properly on the toad brake lights, then when you apply the brakes in the coach, the coach brake lights and the toad brake lights should illuminate...with no voltage yet on the toad brake light circuit except right at the rear bulbs. Once the SMI unit detects deceleration, it will apply the toad brakes, the toad brake light circuit will now have voltage from the toad battery, the rear brake lights will remain illuminated (or burn a little brighter), and the SMI monitor will indicate that the toad brakes are applied.

If you have separate brake light bulbs installed on the toad, then when you apply the brakes in the coach, the coach brake lights and the separate toad brake lights will illuminate...with no voltage yet on the toad brake light circuit. Once the SMI unit detects deceleration, it will apply the toad brakes, the toad brake light circuit will now have voltage from the toad battery, the toad rear brake lights will illuminate (in addition to the separate bulb powered by the coach), and the SMI monitor will indicate that the toad brakes are applied.

If you have no coach brake light wiring to the toad brake light assembly, the SMI unit should still activate based on coach brake lights on and deceleration as I think the sensor for coach brake lights on is in the coach portion of the SMI system.

Sorry for being so wordy, but maybe having his info will help you with the troubleshooting. I think your problem is either in the 7 pin to 6 pin wiring to the toad, or in the diode connections (if you have them) to the toad brake lights. Since you're running a 3 to 2 converter from the coach, the 6 wires should be enough for the toad.

There's no substitute for using the voltmeter or test light to determine what signal is getting to your toad.

Let us know what you finally determine to cause the problem.

Fred
I am thinking also that the problem is within the 7 pin to 6 pin trailer wiring harness/plug. I thought it would look nicer if I went that route, but may have to run the CRV brake light switch wire out of the plug to the monitor light. I wait and see if any more ideas come by. Thanks and n/p on being so wordy.
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Old 05-09-2014, 06:28 AM   #10
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OK. I downloaded the SMI install manual for your unit, and it works like I assumed except your "g force controller" is installed in the toad.

Now, I'm not completely sure of your problem. You stated "The brake light from the Coach controls the Honda's brake light. The brake light on the Coach and Honda should work independently."



When the wiring is like what your wiring diagram indicates, the coach will control the honda's brake light. The next paragraph outlines how I think it will work with your wiring:


When you apply the brakes in the coach, the coach brake lights and the toad brake lights should illuminate...with no voltage yet on the toad brake light circuit except right at the rear bulbs. Once the SMI unit detects deceleration, it will apply the toad brakes, the toad brake light circuit will now have voltage from the toad battery, the rear brake lights will remain illuminated (or burn a little brighter), and the SMI monitor will indicate that the toad brakes are applied.


It sounds like it is working as expected.



Do you get the toad brakes applied when deceleration is detected and coach brakes are applied? If yes, all is normal.



Does your monitor light illuminate when the SMI unit applies the toad brakes?


Give us a little more explanation about your problem and maybe we can generate some more ideas.


Fred
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Old 05-09-2014, 04:01 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Fred Cooper View Post


When you apply the brakes in the coach, the coach brake lights and the toad brake lights should illuminate...with no voltage yet on the toad brake light circuit except right at the rear bulbs. Once the SMI unit detects deceleration, it will apply the toad brakes, the toad brake light circuit will now have voltage from the toad battery, the rear brake lights will remain illuminated (or burn a little brighter), and the SMI monitor will indicate that the toad brakes are applied.


It sounds like it is working as expected.



Do you get the toad brakes applied when deceleration is detected and coach brakes are applied? If yes, all is normal.



Does your monitor light illuminate when the SMI unit applies the toad brakes?


Give us a little more explanation about your problem and maybe we can generate some more ideas.


Fred
Now this is starting to make sense. Now the problem that I have is the monitor light. When the coach brake light is applied so does the toad brake light, which now I understand is correct. But the monitor light come on and the toad brake is not even applied. I have the wire hook up to the cold side of the toad brake light switch and I check my plug connections and all seem correct. Do I need a rely?
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Old 05-09-2014, 05:35 PM   #12
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Hmmm....I didn't notice that you have separate brake lights that are not shared filaments with the turn signals.

I believe there is a diode missing in the diagram above.

Look at the "red" line in the wiring diagram above. There is nothing to prevent the brake line voltage from the coach from backing feeding all the way to the front of the toad and making your "cold" brake wire become "hot".

I think one diode on the red line will solve your problem. It must be placed to prevent back flow into the toad "cold" brake line.

That wiring diagram would work just fine if the SMI unit did not depend upon the toad brake "cold" line only becoming "hot" when the toad brakes are applied.

Let me know if this works.

Fred
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Old 05-10-2014, 12:58 AM   #13
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Hmmm....I didn't notice that you have separate brake lights that are not shared filaments with the turn signals.

I believe there is a diode missing in the diagram above.

Look at the "red" line in the wiring diagram above. There is nothing to prevent the brake line voltage from the coach from backing feeding all the way to the front of the toad and making your "cold" brake wire become "hot".

I think one diode on the red line will solve your problem. It must be placed to prevent back flow into the toad "cold" brake line.

That wiring diagram would work just fine if the SMI unit did not depend upon the toad brake "cold" line only becoming "hot" when the toad brakes are applied.

Let me know if this works.

Fred
Does anybody know if the diode needs to be at a recommended distance to the tail lamp or before the "cold" side of the brake line?
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Old 05-10-2014, 09:05 AM   #14
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Does anybody know if the diode needs to be at a recommended distance to the tail lamp or before the "cold" side of the brake line?
I don't think it matters as long as it is between the connection in the wiring diagram above labeled "Solder here/tape/all brake lights will work" and the SMI connection to the toad cold brake light line.

Fred
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