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Old 08-31-2015, 06:19 PM   #29
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AF1 is at least as good. Had both, AF1 comes with break away and is easier to install. JMHO
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:22 PM   #30
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AF1 is at least as good. Had both, AF1 comes with break away and is easier to install. JMHO
Noel I would have agreed with you on the complicated M&G install until I did the install myself, it was the easiest system I have ever installed.
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Old 09-01-2015, 01:21 AM   #31
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Scott
I do agree the system is not for every application. However, it has been around for almost 40 years and just because it is old school does not mean the new systems are more reliable/less problematic. If something can go wrong...it will...and does...quite often as evidenced by the number of posts in this towing forum complaining about ineffective or unintended braking. I have previously asked for anyone to come forward with an M & G braking problem...and am still waiting. Your DIY write up is excellent and should go a long way towards hopefully converting some of the non-believing newbie diesel pusher herd.
Dennis
Dennis,
Roger that Sir. I too hope it will help with a decision on what kind of braking system one should think about, if they have a diesel pusher and, a toad that an M & G system is made for.
Scott
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Old 09-01-2015, 01:34 PM   #32
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When we got our M&G system installed we did not get very good instructions with it or on it. What is this 'mashing of the brake pedal two or three times' that you are talking about. I was just told to connect it and get in and tow. Could you elaborate a little further?
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Old 09-01-2015, 02:56 PM   #33
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When we got our M&G system installed we did not get very good instructions with it or on it. What is this 'mashing of the brake pedal two or three times' that you are talking about. I was just told to connect it and get in and tow. Could you elaborate a little further?
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Terry

you are correct Terry but what I was talking about was testing the brakeway and in order to test it you have to fill the air cylinder on the brakeway system, the way to charge or fill the little air tank it takes two or probably one long brake action on the coach with the toad air hooked up to fill the cylinder or tank.
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Old 09-01-2015, 07:41 PM   #34
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Walt,
Thanks for the clarification. So after you have stopped a couple of times driving the tank should be full and ready to do its job.


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Old 09-11-2015, 08:52 AM   #35
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I am looking to replace my brake buddy with a new system. Looking at Air Force One and M&G so far..... In reading Scott's description of the install, it seems pretty straight forward, but on the M&G website they say :

SELF INSTALLATIONS: In rare cases, very qualified mechanics can successfully install the system on some vehicles. We do not recommend this approach as it has often proven to be trouble-prone

That got me leaning toward the Air Force unit, but now it seems like it's not a big deal, I wonder why they put that warning out there ?
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Old 09-11-2015, 11:32 AM   #36
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I am looking to replace my brake buddy with a new system. Looking at Air Force One and M&G so far..... In reading Scott's description of the install, it seems pretty straight forward, but on the M&G website they say :

SELF INSTALLATIONS: In rare cases, very qualified mechanics can successfully install the system on some vehicles. We do not recommend this approach as it has often proven to be trouble-prone

That got me leaning toward the Air Force unit, but now it seems like it's not a big deal, I wonder why they put that warning out there ?
PanJH,
In our world of SUE-HAPPY public, liability is the name of the game now days and, for quite a few years past. You can't even sell a cup of coffee at Micky-Ds without fear some old lady's going to spill it on herself and sue you for TOO HOT of coffee.

Anyway, manufacturers are putting ten times the warnings on items, procedures and more these days due to things like just mentioned. Now, dose this mean the M & G install is childs play, certainly not. It is however, not a very complicated install at all. A couple of points here.

1. The install of the M & G component in the toad side is pretty straight forward with the exception of two shaft adjustments. Those are simply common sense adjustments. M & G's instructions COULD be improved a bit to make things easier to understand for most back yard DIY types. If you're a seasoned vet at mechanical stuff, it's pretty simple.

2. On the coach side installation, due to some various systems and, configurations, if there's any doubt on the procedure, a call to M & G customer service is warranted. I pride myself on my mechanical abilities and, am pretty savvy about what's going on under there. But, when it came to this part of the installation, I WANTED TO BE DEAD SURE, I was going at correctly. So, I called them.

I was walked right through the procedure which, took about a whopping 2 minutes on the phone with them because it is, that simple.

So, if you're on the fence as to which system, I don't know much about AF-1 but, I do know that there is a component on the inside of the vehicle that must be attached to the brake pedal. I did not want that. It's a preference thing.

That is why I chose the M & G system. NOTHING is attached to anything, on the inside of the toad. All that's done in prep for towing is, you connect both ends of the air line between the coach and the toad and, YOU'RE DONE!
Scott
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Old 09-11-2015, 11:49 AM   #37
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As Scott said above its not hard to do on the Diesel side with air brakes.
My install was little harder as I do not have air brakes on my class "A". The hardest part was taping into the hydraulic brake lines and running them to the transfer valve on the air compressor and then wiring the air compressor to a relay and the ignition switch.

I have installed the system on two of my toads. The Bronco II was easy but when installing on the 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo I had to take drivers head light out to install the small air tank and valves behind it. But M & G system was well worth it and I love the system.
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Old 09-11-2015, 02:07 PM   #38
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Thanks Guys --- Scott, I was thinking it might be a liability issue and now it sounds like the M&G may be the ticket from what sounds to be a pretty straight forward install. I haven't messed with the airbrakes on our new coach, so I'll be careful making sure I am positive before I do any cutting. I like the idea of not having something hooked up to the brake pedal. I'll have to explore under the hood of the toad to see about placement of the breakaway. BTW, it's a new toad as of a couple hours ago. I had taken my previous toad/pickup in for it's 60k mile tranny flush,etc. and the Ford dealer managed to catch it on fire. So now, instead of the Ranger, I have a F-150 that I now have to set up before our next trip. So, new base plate, wiring,install the Rampage lift and just get things in order. Since I'm doing this and now have a diesel coach, I figured it would be a good time to ditch the brake buddy and to go with an easier/better brake hookup.
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Old 09-11-2015, 06:44 PM   #39
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PH don't let it worry you in taping into the air system all you do is remove one fitting replace with a T put the fitting and the 1/4 tubing fitting for the air line to the M&G (be sure to use 1/4 air line for truck air system) if the 1/4 inch air line did part your engine air compressor if in good shape ( do a air brake test every now and then the procedure will tell you if the compressor is up to par) it will have no problem keeping up. I can't see why anyone would think that taping to the air system is dangerous. If you need to see pictures of my install on 2013 F150 let me know.
I think you will find its a bit harder to install the AF1.
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Old 09-11-2015, 08:42 PM   #40
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Thanks Guys --- Scott, I was thinking it might be a liability issue and now it sounds like the M&G may be the ticket from what sounds to be a pretty straight forward install. I haven't messed with the airbrakes on our new coach, so I'll be careful making sure I am positive before I do any cutting. I like the idea of not having something hooked up to the brake pedal. I'll have to explore under the hood of the toad to see about placement of the breakaway. BTW, it's a new toad as of a couple hours ago. I had taken my previous toad/pickup in for it's 60k mile tranny flush,etc. and the Ford dealer managed to catch it on fire. So now, instead of the Ranger, I have a F-150 that I now have to set up before our next trip. So, new base plate, wiring,install the Rampage lift and just get things in order. Since I'm doing this and now have a diesel coach, I figured it would be a good time to ditch the brake buddy and to go with an easier/better brake hookup.
Hey PanJH,
You struck a chord close to me here. I see you're going to set up a "Rampage" lift, correct? Well, I don't know if we've discussed my install/setup of mine but, just in case you're interested, I've got a bit of advice on your install if you'd like. Basically, I setup a 26" piece of 1/4" x 2"x 2" angle iron under the bed, at the front end, close to the front bed wall. I welded two, 1/2" x 13 nuts on that piece of angle iron at the same spacing at the width of the mounting holes on the front section of the Rampage.

I then drilled the bed in the correct spots, to expose those two welded nuts. The piece of angle iron is held up under the bottom of the bed by two, real small screws. They are only holding the angle iron there. There is no load on them when the lift is in service.

I then drilled the rear section of the bed for three, 5/16" x 18 "Nut-Serts" and, installed them.

Now, one more thing. I built a CART for that Rampage. And, that cart is approximately 1/2" above the level of the bed. So, when it comes time to install that Rampage, I roll the cart with the Rampage right up to the back of the truck. Incedentally, the tail gate is completely off at this point. I'll explain that later.

And, because the cart is 1/2" higher than the bed, the Rampage glides right into the bed, about 1/3 the way, without touching the bed. I then lift the rear end of the Rampage, (actually lifting only 1/2 the weight of the Rampage) because other end is now being supported by the bed of the truck. Once I lift it, the Rampage is no longer touching the cart and, the dear wife just rolls the cart out of the way and, I continue sliding the Rampage all the way into the bed, until it's aligned with the holes I drilled in the bed.

At that point, I drop the long, 3" x 1/2" x 16 bolts through the Rampage and, right into the welded nuts, under the bed. At that point, the rear section is already lined up with the nut-serts. So, I tighten the front bolts, install and tighten the rear ones and, it's installed. That whole process takes me about, 2-3 minutes, total.

When it comes time to remove it, all of what I just wrote, is reversed. Again, the total process takes only 2-3 minutes and, our truck is back in service as a truck.

The reason I remove the tail gate is two-fold. One, the level of the tail gate, in the laid--down position, is actually HIGHER than the level of the bed. Hmmmm, haven't figure out that one yet. Second, since the tail gate is not needed and or, cannot be used when the lift is in place, there's no need to haul it around and potentially damage it.

So, that's my system. Below are a couple of pictures of the cart. It was fun making it and, it's been invaluable since.
Scott




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Old 09-12-2015, 07:21 AM   #41
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Scott - good ideas ! I've had the Rampage in the Ranger for 4 yrs. I had been sliding it off when not in use onto a couple saw horses, but never liked that setup due to the weight of the Rampage and the difficulty in sliding it off/on. About 6 months ago, I was looking at stuff on Craigslist ( where btw, I picked up the rampage) and saw a ad for a 8 ft section of roller conveyor. It has adjustable legs, I have it set up at about the same height as the Ranger bed and now I just slide it off/on. I'll need to readjust the height as the F-150 is significantly higher.
I like your idea with the angle up front. On the old truck, I installed the nutserts in the front as well as the rear. I didn't like the idea if only the nutserts holding the front, so I used longer bolts up front and then crawled underneath and put a piece of channel over the projecting nutsert bolts and held it on with a nuts. I wanted to distribute the pressure over a larger area. It wasn't time consuming to put that channel on, but not the most fun thing to do crawling on the ground. I like your idea of permanently mounting it. Another thing to add to the list.

Walt- I would like to see pics of your install when you have a chance
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Old 09-12-2015, 08:06 AM   #42
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Scott: As I would expect from you an excellent write up! To the poster that tied into his hydraulic brake lines: I may be wrong but I don't think that is a recommended practice anymore.
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