Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Toads and Motorhome Related Towing
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-06-2008, 11:18 AM   #1
Moderator Emeritus
 
Mike Canter's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Freeport, ME
Posts: 4,707
I think that by 1997 Jeep Wrangle is wearing the tires out too fast while being towed. I chacked the alignment and I had +6.2* caster on both sides. This may seem a lot to regular car owners but is within the +6 to +8 limits of a Jeep with coil spring suspension. I had read somewhere that to have a car track better and stop tire scrubbing while being towed to increase the caster by some amount. I can't remember what that amount is. Does anyone know?

I have increased the caster now to the max of +8* to see what happens. The only thing I noticed was the steering wheel spins back to centerline a little faster after going around a corner.

Has anyone played with a Jeep Wrangler with coil springs suspension and found what the best caster setting is for towing? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
__________________

__________________
Mike Canter
"Gunner" USN Retired, Airdale
2004 Monaco Signature 44' Conquest. Detroit 60
Mike Canter is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-06-2008, 12:44 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
porscheracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Back at the stix'n'brix - East End, AR.
Posts: 553
You have discovered what caster does - centers the wheel. The downsides - it makes it a little more twitchy going backward and a little harder to turn . . . although with power steering it's not an issue.

Depending on the wear pattern . . . tire wear is usually a function of toe and camber more than caster. I'd try setting the camber and toe as close to 0 as the specs allow.
__________________

__________________
Norm & Janet

FMCA; WIT; FCOA; Good Sam; Passport
porscheracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2008, 02:20 PM   #3
Moderator Emeritus
 
Mike Canter's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Freeport, ME
Posts: 4,707
Thanks. The wear is absolutely even across the tires. No unusual wear pattern. The camber is at -0.4* on both wheels and the toe-in is right on. I tested the Jeep backing up and it seems like no problem and of course I never back it up attached to the MH.

As an extreme I use +10* on the drag racing car to keep it straight down the track at high speed. If you are not careful backing up on the strip it will jerk the steering wheel out of your hands and the car will do a real quick 180* turn just like what Robert Mitchum did in the movie Thunder Road.
__________________
Mike Canter
"Gunner" USN Retired, Airdale
2004 Monaco Signature 44' Conquest. Detroit 60
Mike Canter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2008, 08:23 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California Desert
Posts: 357
Tire wear on a toad can also be a function of the steepness your towbar angle. If your MH connect is much higher than the Jeep's, you may be lifting the front end and scrubbing the tires. Blue Ox says the toad should be between level and 4" lower.
__________________
2004 Southwind 32VS
2014 C-Max toad
Workhorse chassis
wilanddij is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 08:55 PM   #5
Member
 
John90XJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 95
A lunchbox locker or limited slip diff in the front maybe?

Toe should be set as close to ZERO on this front end as possible
__________________
2001.5 Discovery 38D
F402770
John90XJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2009, 06:00 AM   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
Mike Canter's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Freeport, ME
Posts: 4,707
Nope, no front locker. Here is what I did. The front caster range on that 97 Wrangler is 6.0* to 8.0* and it was set at 6.2*. I turned the concentric caster adjuster bolts 90* so they were at their max and measured the caster again and it was now at 8.0*. On the last trip I noticed no scrubbing. The Jeep is following the MH better. I actually like the way the Jeep drives now. It likes to stay in a straight line and high crosswinds don't bother it as much. The toe-in is at 1/16".
__________________
Mike Canter
"Gunner" USN Retired, Airdale
2004 Monaco Signature 44' Conquest. Detroit 60
Mike Canter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2009, 07:43 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
CARVAL Motorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 110
Funny, I keep running into the same people here?!

I was going to drop a new post asking about a Wrangler as a toad. This seems to answer my question as to whether it would be a decent choice. We are looking at several used Jeeps right now. Can you tell me anything else Mike? I do remember several years ago, a good friend towed his Jeep Wrangler and did experience the same tire wear issues. I am assuming that your unit is a manual.

Towing a vehicle is going to be somewhat new to me as I have just pulled trailers before. From your post, I see that backing up with a toad is not a good thing, true? Or maybe just minor rear movement? So that means you get close to where you are going and disconnect, correct. Anything different because of a tag axle? If there is a Toad cheater sheet out there, maybe you could guide me to it.
__________________
Carl and Valarie * 1997 National RV Dolphin 535,
2003 Jeep Wrangler, 944 Porsche NASA-GTS/2,
Yamaha Roadstar Silverado/Yamaha CT175/Honda Spree, 24ft Vintage Trailer
CARVAL Motorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2009, 03:16 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
porscheracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Back at the stix'n'brix - East End, AR.
Posts: 553
Carl . . .

We were investigating getting a Wrangler to use as a toad for the View (at 4500#, the Dakota is a wee bit more than it likes). An hour-long trip on the interstate convinced us of the error of our ways. Since serious off-roading wasn't really in our plans, we ended up ordering an Escape AWD - less $$, more comfort / economy, lighter.

We back up all the time with the Dakota. You just have to remember that once the negative caster takes over and the wheels start to go off-axis, you're done. With any luck, 100' or so is a piece of cake.

The toad is easier to tow forward. It takes a radius much more like the MH.

I've been visualizing an electro-mechanical caster adjuster for toads - where you filip a switch to "reverse" and it goes to about 8* negative caster.
__________________
Norm & Janet

FMCA; WIT; FCOA; Good Sam; Passport
porscheracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2009, 04:05 AM   #9
Moderator Emeritus
 
Mike Canter's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Freeport, ME
Posts: 4,707
Carl, the only problem I have had towing that Jeep was that tire scrubbing.I bet I have towed it 40,000 miles. I have seen it written several MH Magazine tech sections that adding caster makes any vehicle tow better. It was not a big deal to adjust the caster.There is a bolt on where the lower arm attaches to the axle and in has a lobe attached to the bolt head. That lobe pushes against the arm. I marked with a dot of paint where it originally was. On my Jeep it was straight up which is the neutral position which is 6*+ caster. I loosned the lock nut and moved the bolt head 90* which is max. That changed me to a 8*+ caster.

Yes, I can also backup if the MH and toad staying a straight line. If either one turns it is over. I have gotten myself into a couple of situations where I have had to disconnect to get out.
__________________
Mike Canter
"Gunner" USN Retired, Airdale
2004 Monaco Signature 44' Conquest. Detroit 60
Mike Canter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 07:41 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Bruce H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Kingman AZ
Posts: 200
I just got back from the tire shop because my 2000 Jeep Cherokee had a tire flapping sound. It was due to the front tires cupping. They recommended rotate the tires every 3000 miles. I had a bout 7000 miles towing. I have a Blue Ox tow system and wonder if I should investigate the caster or toe in etc. My MH has a 12 foot over hang and I thought that was the problem, and it may be. I do like having the 4 wheel drive as I am not limited to where I can go.
__________________
2004 Newmar/Scottsdale, W22, Toad/2000 Jeep Cherokee Classic 4X4 Auto Trans, US Gear Brake System, Blue OX Tow Bar, Garmin 1450 MT GPS. RVing Since 1989. Life Is Good!!!
Bruce H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 09:01 AM   #11
Moderator Emeritus
 
Mike Canter's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Freeport, ME
Posts: 4,707
I was not seeing cupping on the front tires. I was seeing them wear evenly fast. Normally cupping is caused by a bad or worn suspension parts such as shocks or ball joints. Depending on the type of cupping it can just be because the tire was out of balance for a long time. Once they start cupping they just get worse. Cupping will not be fixed by increased caster.

Try this http://www.goodyeartires.com/kyt/maintainingATire/#2
__________________
Mike Canter
"Gunner" USN Retired, Airdale
2004 Monaco Signature 44' Conquest. Detroit 60
Mike Canter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2009, 09:09 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Bruce H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Kingman AZ
Posts: 200
Thanks for your input Mike. What is puzzling about the cupping is I didn't seem to have the problem until I started towing. The Jeep has 80,000 miles and has not been abused off road. I did check out the Goodyear site and they suggested much of what you did. I will have the Jeep checked out for worn front end and maybe I do need shocks.
__________________
2004 Newmar/Scottsdale, W22, Toad/2000 Jeep Cherokee Classic 4X4 Auto Trans, US Gear Brake System, Blue OX Tow Bar, Garmin 1450 MT GPS. RVing Since 1989. Life Is Good!!!
Bruce H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2009, 11:26 AM   #13
Moderator Emeritus
 
Mike Canter's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Freeport, ME
Posts: 4,707
Bruce, a little more caster really helps keeping the toad in a straight line behind you. I believe that 1 to 1.5* increase is what is recommended or to the high end of the specifications of your vehicle. The only thing it might do is make it a little harder to turn a corner if you are driving the SUV by itself. I didn't notice an difference in my turning. It also helped the MH a little in crosswinds and when those #$%$ trucks sneak up alongside of you. I guess the Jeep is not being affected as much by the winds.

As far as your Jeep is concerned maybe 80000 miles is time to change your shocks or at least do a bounce test on them. Take a flashlight and see if you can see any evidence of oil and oil soaked dirt on upper part of them where the rod goes into the shock. I just changed the front struts in my wife's BMW at 140,000 miles and they were totally gone.
__________________

__________________
Mike Canter
"Gunner" USN Retired, Airdale
2004 Monaco Signature 44' Conquest. Detroit 60
Mike Canter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jeep Wrangler or such Old Rv'er Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 8 06-15-2008 07:01 AM
Setting up the new Wrangler - with pics SargeW Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 20 05-17-2008 06:21 AM
'04 Jeep Wrangler rvingrampa Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 7 10-25-2007 12:57 PM
Towing a Jeep wrangler Mike (KC9IPV) Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 4 01-26-2007 11:49 AM
towing a 91 jeep wrangler YosemiteBobR Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 15 04-13-2006 12:31 AM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.