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Old 06-09-2015, 11:01 PM   #1
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MH 7-pin Plug to Toad 7-pin Plug for Toad Lights??

Just thinking out loud here and planning what I need to do to flat tow a vehicle behind my MH. Thinking about one of my full size trucks that is 4x4 and already set up for towing trailers with 7 pin plug.

If the toad has a 7-pin trailer plug, is there any reason I can't just make a male-to-male connection cable and plug in from the MH female 7-pin plug to the toad's female 7-pin plug? Of course would run the cable so it does not drag, probably leave it secured under the toad and just tuck in each end when not in use behind the bumper or someplace convenient.

It seems to me this would run the toad lights just like a trailer, albeit putting voltage through the toad plug sort of backwards from the normal way it flows when toad is towing a trailer. Can even use this to help charge toad battery through the hot lead on the 7-pin plug. Would need a brake device for the toad of course. Sure would make it easy to wire lights in the toad if all that is needed is connect the two female 7-pin plugs together with a custom cable with two 7-pin male ends.

Am I missing something why this will or will not work?
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Old 06-09-2015, 11:16 PM   #2
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Maybe! If the truck has a trailer tow package the trailer lights maybe isolated from the truck lights by relays. If so you would be applying voltage to the contacts which go to a voltage source in the truck, not the lights. The coils of the relays are triggered by the truck lights. They would not light.


If the truck is wired such that the lights are in parallel with the trailer connector, they would light, but you would be back feeding the trucks electronics (not a good idea) That is why they use diode isolators.
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Old 06-09-2015, 11:25 PM   #3
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Well that is an interesting question. I guess the answer all depends on how the toad 7 pin trailer connector was wired on the toad. Modern day vehicles are getting more and more complicated in the way they are wired. The toad plug could be wired through relays, and if that is the case the simple answer is NO.

If the toad plug was wired directly from the bulbs, that is a wire was run from the toad bulbs to the plug, then the answer is MAYBE. There could be a interference problem or a back feeding problem, or even damaging a computer that may control lighting in the toad if you do what you are proposing.

If the toad is a oldy but goody old fashion wired then the answer is probably.

My gut says it wouldn't work, but what do I know?

Good question 38Chevy454
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Old 06-10-2015, 08:46 AM   #4
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That's the setup that works for me. Seven way connector used for charge line to toad battery with a circuit breaker at each end of the charge line. Diode block used in toad to isolate lighting systems between the two vehicles. All plugs and sockets are wired with the standard 7-way configuration.
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Old 06-10-2015, 09:26 AM   #5
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Typical RV to toad is 7 pin at the RV, 6 pin on the toad. On of the 7 pins is tagged as Auxillary, another is for electric brakes, see attached, and are not used for towing four down.
You can buy 7 to 6 pin umbilical cords just about anywhere. attached is how Blue Ox wires there umbilical for towing four down.
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 38Chevy454 View Post
Just thinking out loud here and planning what I need to do to flat tow a vehicle behind my MH. Thinking about one of my full size trucks that is 4x4 and already set up for towing trailers with 7 pin plug.

If the toad has a 7-pin trailer plug, is there any reason I can't just make a male-to-male connection cable and plug in from the MH female 7-pin plug to the toad's female 7-pin plug? Of course would run the cable so it does not drag, probably leave it secured under the toad and just tuck in each end when not in use behind the bumper or someplace convenient.

It seems to me this would run the toad lights just like a trailer, albeit putting voltage through the toad plug sort of backwards from the normal way it flows when toad is towing a trailer. Can even use this to help charge toad battery through the hot lead on the 7-pin plug. Would need a brake device for the toad of course. Sure would make it easy to wire lights in the toad if all that is needed is connect the two female 7-pin plugs together with a custom cable with two 7-pin male ends.

Am I missing something why this will or will not work?
Well 38Chevy,
I'm by far no expert on this stuff but, have done a bit of toad wiring in my day. I'm one of the ones that utilizes the stock tail light bulbs as toad lights and does NOT INSTALL MORE SOCKETS AND BULBS. Now, with that being said, I'm thinking that what you're thinking will not work. Now, the reason I say this is because, that 7-pin connector on the back of your toad, is setup and wired to work in conjunction with the turn signal lever in your toad.

What that means is, if you're driving the toad, and your turn signal lever is in the neutral position, and, you apply the brakes, the wiring in that steering column and turn signal switch plate is set up so that the brake light signal from the brake switch will travel through that switch plate, TO BOTH tail lights.

But, if you apply the brakes AND have a turn signal on, either side, that brake light signal is now broken up so that it only goes to the opposite side that's got the turn signal filament blinking. Are you seeing what I'm saying and trying to describe here?

Now, if you hook things up between the two 7-pin connectors as you're thinking of, you'll send a combo brake/turn to one side for a turn signal correct? But, because that turn signal lever in the truck (toad) is in the neutral position, that signal from the coach, will travel through the toad 7-pin connector, into the wiring, all the way to the steering column, through the turn signal plate, and, all the way to the other side tail light. Now, you'll have both rear tail lights blinking on the toad, even though you have on a turn signal on the coach.

At least this is the way I'm thinking it's going to happen. This is of course not knowing if the factory did not install some sort of diodes in the toads trailer plug wiring some place, to prevent my scenario from happening, as I do when I wire my toads. I hope I've explained things so that you understand my train of thought here.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:23 PM   #7
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Well my truck is an 88 Ford F-250 (no electronics to speak of, and it is a diesel, so no computers on this one). I will have to check, but the trailer wiring is just spliced into the truck lights parallel. So it should work to power the lights. My truck has the 7-pin plug, it tows my car trailer or utility trailer without problem. Can't imagine backfeeding the electric brake unit will have any effect, or I could just not connect that brake wire in the adapter cable plug as the easy and certain solution.

The thought about the turn signal switch may have merit, I guess the best way is to do a test and see if it works or not. Or could be some simple diodes in the truck wiring could prevent any turn signal issues.

I appreciate the discussion and thoughts form everyone.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:31 PM   #8
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The other half of the problem is how the towed is wired. IF you just parallel the existing wiring in the towed it might create problems in the towed. It might not too. Too many variables.
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Old 06-10-2015, 05:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 38Chevy454 View Post
Well my truck is an 88 Ford F-250 (no electronics to speak of, and it is a diesel, so no computers on this one). I will have to check, but the trailer wiring is just spliced into the truck lights parallel. So it should work to power the lights. My truck has the 7-pin plug, it tows my car trailer or utility trailer without problem. Can't imagine backfeeding the electric brake unit will have any effect, or I could just not connect that brake wire in the adapter cable plug as the easy and certain solution.

The thought about the turn signal switch may have merit, I guess the best way is to do a test and see if it works or not. Or could be some simple diodes in the truck wiring could prevent any turn signal issues.

I appreciate the discussion and thoughts form everyone.
38Chevy,
Just to be clear, ( I'm simple minded so, I need clarity when two people are discussing technical issues) when you say "Trailer wiring", are you speaking of any wiring that you added to the toads (trucks in your case) wiring, that would come from the coach, to the truck? And if so, are you speaking of just wires from the coaches RUNNING LIGHTS to the toads RUNNING LIGHTS?

If so, then yes, you'll have no issues in that department. Running lights are the simplest of lighting systems and are normally not that easy to screw up. But, when it comes to turn signals and brake lighting circuits, that's when things get more complicated. And to complicate things even worse, it gets even trickier when the two vehicles do not display the same KIND of turn signals. That is, one vehicle, as in the coach, has AMBER turn signals and, the toad, has just red tail lights.

Of, vise-versa. The coach has only red tail lights and the toad has AMBER turn signals. There's remedies for all of this, and, I've used them all. But, in your case, if both are "red tail light only" you've got half the problem solved. Now, you threw something new in to the mess. You mentioned "electric brake unit". Hmmmmm. That's a whole different ball game.

I'm attaching a drawing I did for when I wired up our last toad. It was an '11 Honda CRV-EXL 4-WD. It had the Amber turn signals but our coach, only has red. So, I incorporated what's called a "Tail light converter" into the circuit in the Honda side of the toad lighting. What that did was allow the combo-brake-turn signal from the coach, to be separated to, a dedicated brake light wire and, a dedicated turn signal wire for each of the lights at the back of the Honda.

What that presents to a following driver behind our toad was the fact that, the toads lights were acting the exact same when it was being towed, as they did when it is being driven. And that included the third brake light too.

Now, if you look at that drawing carefully, you'll also see something you mentioned in my quote of yours and, your last post, DIODES! There are a couple of ways to use diodes in toad wiring. Some put them in the line that comes from the coach, so that the toads lighting system does not back feed the coaches lighting system. Well, to me, that's a waste of time. I've had the toads lights on while still hooked to the coach and, all it did, EACH AND EVERY TIME, IS LIGHT UP THE COACHES LIGHTS, WOW, BIG DEAL!

But, if you look at the position of the DIODES in my diagram, you'll see just exactly where I put them and, for the reason I mentioned in my first answer to your situation. The diodes are in that position to STOP the signal from the coach, from traveling back up stream into the rest of the toads lighting circuits. The signal from the coach hits the diode and stops. But, it can travel to the toads tail lights and do its job. I use a grand total of two diodes in all my wiring and, I do not use the fancy high dollar ones from RV supplies places.

I use the highest amperage ones I can get from Radio Shack. They cost me a whopping $3.50 for four of them. Never had one fail yet, in 30 years of towing toads and, utilizing the stock tail lights as toad lights. Anyway, take a look at the drawing and see if it helps you.
Scott

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Old 06-11-2015, 08:31 AM   #10
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Well I didn't realize that the OP wanted to use an existing 7-way connector on the rear of the toad. My bad. If that is correct that would be a no-no. Too many potential problems with back feeding electronics. I installed a new 7-way connector at the front of the toad and wired it in to the existing light wiring via a diode block and installed a circuit breaker at the toad battery on the charge line. A tail light converter was not needed in my situation.
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