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Old 12-26-2015, 06:23 AM   #29
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If the hitch is bolted on make sure you look to make sure it is not just bolted to the frame extension (if it has the extension plates.
If it is attached in that manner a trailer hitch shop can make quick work of reinforcing the rear rails and bracing the hitch. I towed a 21,000lb two car 28' stacker, with lift, two cars, golf cart , transmission and spare parts, about 35,000 miles with a 7500 lb hitch we braced up. Used a Trailer Toad and had ZERO issues with the coach, stopping was better with the trailer (thanks to 6-12" brakes on trailer) or any of the other things guys seem to worry about so much.

Quit worrying about lawyers and worry a little more about enjoying the years we have left. Common sense, maintenance and patience is allowing thousands of race car families to tow with motor homes every weekend.

Enjoy AZ and have some fun travels!!

Jok
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Old 12-26-2015, 09:35 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis4809 View Post
Check the owners manual on your jeep, but unless you have a 2 wheel drive, a dolly is probably not a option. 4 wheel drive or all wheel drive require 4 down or a trailer.
If the car (in my case Jeep Liberty) is in neutral, why can it not be towed 2-up?
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Old 12-26-2015, 11:18 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osgoor View Post
Without actually weighing the Jeep and Harley this is the best/closest numbers I could find:

Jeep
LIBERTY 4WD JOB RATINGS 3.7-Liter SOHC V-6 Engine
GVWR (lbs.) 5,600
GCWR (lbs.) 8,750
GAWR Front/Rear (lbs.) 2,750/3,150
Curb Weight, est.(a) (lbs.) 4,044

Harley
808 lbs
GCWR minus actual weight of the coach is the recommended amount the chassis should tow. The chassis is not just about what you can get going it is about what you can stop. In addition it probably considers frame strength and drive line capacity including transmission.

Many folks will give anecdotal information about how they were able to break the rules without consequence for many years, miles or both. It is all fine and good but my question is how does your circumstance compare to theirs? Is your equipment the same, are you driving on the same roads, to the same locations, at what speeds? Will they pay for the repairs if their advice was incorrect.

When I was taking flying lessons my instructor had a saying: "There are bold pilots and there are old pilots. There are not many bold old pilots." There are less deaths due to flying because pilots tend to follow the rules.

We have a 15,000 rated hitch on our coach. Asked the dealer if we could get that increased to 20,000 by WGO during the build. WGO would not approve the increase. If they would not accept the risk I would not either. We purchased a much lighter trailer.
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Old 12-26-2015, 11:23 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osgoor View Post
If the car (in my case Jeep Liberty) is in neutral, why can it not be towed 2-up?
If your owner's manual says you can't tow your 2wd Jeep on a dolly then you can't. Most likely if it can't be towed on the rear axle, it's because the transmission won't be adequately lubricated.
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Old 12-27-2015, 05:59 PM   #33
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As a commercial driver's license holder it is sad for me to hear people and even companies claim that the weight limits can be broken with impunity. The fact is the limits are in place for a reason. Mainly the reasons are safety related i.e. to provide a margin against the unexpected. My coach is on a 28,000# chassis (10,500 FAWR & 17,500# RAWR) but the GVWR was derated to 26,000# by the manufactuer because they installed an Allison MH2100 which has a max GVWR of 26,000#. Everything else is rated for 28,000 e.g. brakes, springs etc. following the logic of some posters I should be able to load it up and be fine. The transmission shouldn't matter right? Wrong! The issue is for grade braking to work you need the transmission to work properly. Even in the worst conditions like 110F at the top of a long grade after pulling to the top of the grade. So even though I have a CDL and work for a heavy truck manufacturer and have a basic understanding of the engineering involved I wouldn't intentionally exceed the ratings. Sure there is some small amount you can be over that is unlikely to be a problem. I.e. 1% or less over the limits, however we aren't talking about that at all. On a 26,000# coach that would amount to 260#! The ability to RV is a privelege we can lose. If we have too many people get into accidents or are caught overweight the government can impose increasingly harsher restrictions on RVers. This exact thing just happened with drones. The other way we can lose the lifestyle is if the insurence rates go too high. We as a community need to act in a responsible manner. This means not exceeding the manufacturer's ratings. We all drive on public roads and around other vehicles in varying conditions that may be less than ideal. The limits are for the most part are not arbitrary. Unless you have an engineering degree and testing lab as well as full engineering specifications on your rig including a sub components you aren't qualified to "adjust" the ratings to suit your convenience.
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Old 12-27-2015, 06:28 PM   #34
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How about pulling the Harley behind the jeep

http://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-Tra.../dp/B005XDM0XO

This would get your total towed weight would be within your allowance.
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Old 12-27-2015, 06:30 PM   #35
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If the car (in my case Jeep Liberty) is in neutral, why can it not be towed 2-up?
Maybe I missed it but didn't where you said if your Jeep is 4X4 or 4X2. If 4X4, then I think you'll find that all 4 wheels need to be the same, i.e. all rolling or all stopped as on a trailer. If 4X2 then you might have a possibility but in both cases you should defer to the owners manual. Reference I read shows 4 down on the 4X4 and no go on the 4X2.

http://webcontent.goodsam.com/DinghyGuide2007.pdf
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Old 12-27-2015, 06:30 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by TrailerToad1 View Post
Backing up is not an issue. Simply drop the Two Reverse Pins into their slot and that locks the axle so you only pivot on the ball like you normally would. Yes, the tires skid sideways but it has no real effect on anything (unless you backup like 55 mph ;-)
Call me or check out our website.
As for all the worry some people have about being over the Combined Gross Weight Rating....yes, you will be over that but with trailer brakes, common sense and regular maintenance...I have been abut 10,000-lbs over on all 6 of my motor homes for the last 25 years and no issues, accidents or problems.
Will your company provide a written warranty including liability that would cover any failure caused by exceeding the coach manufactuer's rating? Do you have FMVSS / DOT certification as an upfitter to allow limits to be exceeded?
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Old 12-27-2015, 06:43 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Rockwood27 View Post
If your owner's manual says you can't tow your 2wd Jeep on a dolly then you can't. Most likely if it can't be towed on the rear axle, it's because the transmission won't be adequately lubricated.
I checked the owners manual and my Jeep must be towed 4-down.
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Old 12-27-2015, 06:47 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by msturtz View Post
As a commercial driver's license holder it is sad for me to hear people and even companies claim that the weight limits can be broken with impunity. The fact is the limits are in place for a reason. Mainly the reasons are safety related i.e. to provide a margin against the unexpected. My coach is on a 28,000# chassis (10,500 FAWR & 17,500# RAWR) but the GVWR was de-rated to 26,000# by the manufacturer because they installed an Allison MH2100 which has a max GVWR of 26,000#. Everything else is rated for 28,000 e.g. brakes, springs etc. following the logic of some posters I should be able to load it up and be fine. The transmission shouldn't matter right? Wrong! The issue is for grade braking to work you need the transmission to work properly. Even in the worst conditions like 110F at the top of a long grade after pulling to the top of the grade. So even though I have a CDL and work for a heavy truck manufacturer and have a basic understanding of the engineering involved I wouldn't intentionally exceed the ratings. Sure there is some small amount you can be over that is unlikely to be a problem. I.e. 1% or less over the limits, however we aren't talking about that at all. On a 26,000# coach that would amount to 260#! The ability to RV is a privilege we can lose. If we have too many people get into accidents or are caught overweight the government can impose increasingly harsher restrictions on RVers. This exact thing just happened with drones. The other way we can lose the lifestyle is if the insurance rates go too high. We as a community need to act in a responsible manner. This means not exceeding the manufacturer's ratings. We all drive on public roads and around other vehicles in varying conditions that may be less than ideal. The limits are for the most part are not arbitrary. Unless you have an engineering degree and testing lab as well as full engineering specifications on your rig including a sub components you aren't qualified to "adjust" the ratings to suit your convenience.
msturtz - Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I am looking for an appropriate (safe) solution and based on my MH's weight limitations, find I cannot tandem-tow the car and bike. I will be towing the bike behind the RV and my wife will drive the car when we travel. This is not our ideal situation but will do until we can find a better one.
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Old 12-27-2015, 06:49 PM   #39
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How about pulling the Harley behind the jeep

http://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-Tra.../dp/B005XDM0XO

This would get your total towed weight would be within your allowance.
Thanks... I am looking at a small flat bed trailer to carry the bike on. I will be towing the bike behind the RV and my wife will drive the car when we travel. This is not our ideal situation but will do until we can find a better one.
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Old 12-27-2015, 07:04 PM   #40
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Safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by osgoor View Post
Thanks... I am looking at a small flat bed trailer to carry the bike on. I will be towing the bike behind the RV and my wife will drive the car when we travel. This is not our ideal situation but will do until we can find a better one.
We just went through the same dilemma. Wife drives the Wrangler. I tow the small trailer. Better safe than sorry. Just a side note and not a sales pitch. You want an above average well made small trailer for your bike check out PJ brand sold by retailers in Phoenix. Happy safe motoring.
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Old 12-27-2015, 07:15 PM   #41
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We just went through the same dilemma. Wife drives the Wrangler. I tow the small trailer. Better safe than sorry. Just a side note and not a sales pitch. You want an above average well made small trailer for your bike check out PJ brand sold by retailers in Phoenix. Happy safe motoring.
Thanks... I am looking at an Irontron from Northern Tool. I can add the base myself.

Ironton Heavy-Duty Trailer Kit ó 5ft. x 8ft., 5.30-12in. Tires | Trailers| Northern Tool + Equipment
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Old 12-28-2015, 06:48 AM   #42
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msturtz,
There are over a 1000 Trailer Toads in use and they make towing inherently safer. Reduced sway, not weight transferred to the coach frame, suspension or body structure. The coach ABS function correctly because the coach stays balanced.
Would I accept liability for any failure caused by exceeding the coach weight limits, of course not. I have product liability insurance if the Trailer Toad components fail but nobody transfers liability from their product to another in the towing business. Even the coach builders spend more time not being liable for an Owner's actions.
We offer a tough durable proven product, the Trailer Toad, if used with care and common sense it is an ideal product for people using a motor home to tow trailers. To my knowledge we have never had any liability issues and no Trailer Toad failures in the last 9 years. This is a one-man company and I care and personally help each customer with setup, questions and ideas. If the Trailer Toad is not "right" for that application I tell them that, not everyone needs a Trailer Toad but the ones that do....nothing else even comes close to what we can accomplish for motor home owners and pickup camper owners. I appreciate your concern, I hear it from customers all the time and it something we deal with the best we can.

Thank you,
Jok Nicholson
Trailer Toad LLC
TrailerToad.com
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