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Old 12-28-2015, 12:18 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailerToad1 View Post
msturtz,
There are over a 1000 Trailer Toads in use and they make towing inherently safer. Reduced sway, not weight transferred to the coach frame, suspension or body structure. The coach ABS function correctly because the coach stays balanced.
Would I accept liability for any failure caused by exceeding the coach weight limits, of course not. I have product liability insurance if the Trailer Toad components fail but nobody transfers liability from their product to another in the towing business. Even the coach builders spend more time not being liable for an Owner's actions.
We offer a tough durable proven product, the Trailer Toad, if used with care and common sense it is an ideal product for people using a motor home to tow trailers. To my knowledge we have never had any liability issues and no Trailer Toad failures in the last 9 years. This is a one-man company and I care and personally help each customer with setup, questions and ideas. If the Trailer Toad is not "right" for that application I tell them that, not everyone needs a Trailer Toad but the ones that do....nothing else even comes close to what we can accomplish for motor home owners and pickup camper owners. I appreciate your concern, I hear it from customers all the time and it something we deal with the best we can.

Thank you,
Jok Nicholson
Trailer Toad LLC
TrailerToad.com
I had the same question but it is related to exceeding the GCWR not the GVWR. Which in this case the OP will be doing if he flat tows the Jeep.
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Old 12-29-2015, 12:27 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailerToad1 View Post
msturtz,
There are over a 1000 Trailer Toads in use and they make towing inherently safer. Reduced sway, not weight transferred to the coach frame, suspension or body structure. The coach ABS function correctly because the coach stays balanced.
Would I accept liability for any failure caused by exceeding the coach weight limits, of course not. I have product liability insurance if the Trailer Toad components fail but nobody transfers liability from their product to another in the towing business. Even the coach builders spend more time not being liable for an Owner's actions.
We offer a tough durable proven product, the Trailer Toad, if used with care and common sense it is an ideal product for people using a motor home to tow trailers. To my knowledge we have never had any liability issues and no Trailer Toad failures in the last 9 years. This is a one-man company and I care and personally help each customer with setup, questions and ideas. If the Trailer Toad is not "right" for that application I tell them that, not everyone needs a Trailer Toad but the ones that do....nothing else even comes close to what we can accomplish for motor home owners and pickup camper owners. I appreciate your concern, I hear it from customers all the time and it something we deal with the best we can.

Thank you,
Jok Nicholson
Trailer Toad LLC
TrailerToad.com
Sir, I appreciate your response and believe you have a novel solution that would have applicability in situations where a user has plenty of GCWR but insufficient GVWR to tow a trailer adequately. A good example would be with a Thor Super C based on the F550 chassis which has a 30,000# plus GCWR but only has a GVWR of 19,500#. Your product would allow the RV to remain in compliance with the GVWR and the GCWR. I work for a large multinational truck and other product manufacturer. We have massive testing and certification labs that anything which goes on any vehicle prior to ever being sold. There are ways to modify vehicles that will change the manufacturer's rating. These companies are generally called "upfitters" and can apply a secondary label to a vehicle which modify the original rating. There are significant costs including compliance, engineering, testing etc. Anecdotal evidence given by users of a product will not prevent a person from being killed or injured if a user believes that they can ignore the manufacturer's ratings. Since you indicate that you are a one person company a single suit could bankrupt you. My interest is in safety. Every person that ignores the manufacture's rating is risking the life of other roadway users. It also puts the ability to RV at risk. It could cause more unwanted regulation. Please keep in mind that we test hundreds and thousand samples to gain the proper certifications and safety ratings.
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Old 12-29-2015, 02:45 AM   #45
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I personally think that the trailer toad is a great option. How does one find out if increasing the gcvr is an option on a 40dp?
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Old 12-29-2015, 06:40 AM   #46
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I understand regulations, testing, etc. If you are a multi-national truck or RV manufacturer worth hundreds of millions of dollars it is necessary so you can sell vehicles in the USA, thanks to the Federal regulations.

My product is a bit of a throwback to when people would actually made their own hitches, drank water from a garden hose and played outside. No doubt I could go broke if there was some money hungry lawyer involved but I learned to trust my customers in how they drive, how they prepare for a trip and we work to provide the best piece of equipment to protect their coach that we can.

We have dozens of manufacturers and dealers of motor homes and trailers that recommend the Trailer Toad to their customers rather than see the coach overloaded and the stress damage begin.

If a potential customer calls and is worried about all that can go wrong and legal issues he is probably not going to end up with a Trailer Toad. If a potential customer calls and understands he is pulling more weight but keeping the brakes on the trailer in good working condition, taking your time down long grades and he wants to prevent side wall buckling, rear cap damage and suspension overloading so he can take his "toys", we have exactly what they need.

To me, it is a risk vs reward. I take a risk making the Trailer Toad and the Reward is in the 100% satisfaction reports I get back. That is why I am trying to make it more durable every time we build one.

I work to get my customers to understand the limitations of the Trailer Toad and what to expect when using one. Until they know that the final sale doesn't matter to me. It isn't the money that is the final goal, it is the satisfied customer.

Thank you,

Jok Nicholson
Trailer Toad LLC
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Old 12-29-2015, 06:50 AM   #47
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I don't think it will be the Trailer Toad users putting other people at risk on the roads. People who are texting while driving, distracted on the cell phone, driving cars and trucks while overly tired, traveling with unsafe tires and suspensions that have not been checked for 100,000 miles....those are the situations that cause accidents, not a motor home with a driver who realizes he is hauling not only a heavy load but a load of "something special" to him, sand buggies, Harleys, Gold Wings, race cars, etc.

If anything the Trailer Toad enhances the motor home owners safety because there is no chance they are overloading the coach tires, suspension or chassis. I chose to not stay home and worry about 30 years ago. Hauling my race cars around with several motor homes beat them to death. Finally the Trailer Toad was what made it possible to travel with a trailer and not ruin the coach.

Like life, it is a personal choice. You just make it and continue forward.

Appreciate your concern and understand 100%.

Jok
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:49 AM   #48
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Here's what I did - tow a Ford Ranger , installed a Rampage lift I got for a few hundred $'s on Craigslist and off we go. This was with a 1999 36ft Pace arrow Vision with a V-10 . The bike weighs in at right around 1000 lbs loaded so I put airbags on the back of the Ranger.
Just got rid of the ranger and have F-150, moved the rampage to that and I'm ready to go again.
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Old 12-30-2015, 01:55 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrailerToad1 View Post
I don't think it will be the Trailer Toad users putting other people at risk on the roads. People who are texting while driving, distracted on the cell phone, driving cars and trucks while overly tired, traveling with unsafe tires and suspensions that have not been checked for 100,000 miles....those are the situations that cause accidents, not a motor home with a driver who realizes he is hauling not only a heavy load but a load of "something special" to him, sand buggies, Harleys, Gold Wings, race cars, etc.

If anything the Trailer Toad enhances the motor home owners safety because there is no chance they are overloading the coach tires, suspension or chassis. I chose to not stay home and worry about 30 years ago. Hauling my race cars around with several motor homes beat them to death. Finally the Trailer Toad was what made it possible to travel with a trailer and not ruin the coach.

Like life, it is a personal choice. You just make it and continue forward.

Appreciate your concern and understand 100%.

Jok
I am all for alternate solutions that enable anyone to pull safely. My definition of safely starts with being within the manufacturers specifications. When anecdotal evidence is offered as evidence it should not supersede proven engineering principles. It does not take into account differences in operating practice between individuals or groups.

I will disagree with you when you say not overloading the chassis. You choose to disregard the engine, transmission, drive line and rear end. Not to say the braking should the brakes on the toad fail (an event that happens quite often if you read the threads due to plugs pulling out or shorting).
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Old 01-01-2016, 01:58 PM   #50
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Gordon,
I understand where you are coming from. It is a matter of personal choice, the budget you operate within and if you are concerned with tags and stickers.
I deal with Prevost conversion companies, Customer Service Depts at Winnebago, Tiffin and several trailer manufacturers.
They are beginning to recommend customers to call us at Trailer Toad because they either want the weight off the coach or they know the tongue weight of the new trailer exceeds the hitch tongue weight limits.

Is it "risky" to exceed manufacturers guidelines, some people think so and that is fine. The drivelines in most coaches is far tougher than they rate them for. I have owned several motor homes and rather than worry about the chassis and drive limitations I wish coach manufacturers would work on overall quality of the coaches in general, wiring, fit and finish, junk wiring quality, etc.

There is not set in stone answer about towing. I will stand by my belief that using a Trailer Toad to tow a heavy trailer with a coach or a truck camper is the ONLY TRAILER HITCH that carries the trailer weight without transferring it to the coach.

It is a personal decision, nothing more and nothing less.

Thanks for your input.

Jok
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Old 01-02-2016, 03:44 PM   #51
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Jok;
Please do not get me wrong. I think Trailer Toad is a fine product that has a place in the industry.

However as stated previously I do not believe that supplemental devices add to the overall specifications of any drive unit. While taking the weight off of the hitch is undoubtedly good exceeding the GCWR is not.

Perhaps capacities are overbuilt as you suggest but as you also state you are not able to guarantee damages should any issues develop over exceeding them. That says it all.

Personal choice is stuff like color of the coach and interior, routes you choose to drive, when you take your breaks, etc. Encouraging folks to exceed specifications that are determined using engineering principles is morally and perhaps legally wrong.
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Old 01-02-2016, 04:21 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanJH View Post
Here's what I did - tow a Ford Ranger , installed a Rampage lift I got for a few hundred $'s on Craigslist and off we go. This was with a 1999 36ft Pace arrow Vision with a V-10 . The bike weighs in at right around 1000 lbs loaded so I put airbags on the back of the Ranger.
Just got rid of the ranger and have F-150, moved the rampage to that and I'm ready to go again.
So, is your coach rated for that weight or did you just go with the setup you described?
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