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Old 11-14-2015, 04:01 PM   #1
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Need Toad 12v Aux. Power Wiring Help

I purchased an 09 Wrangler already setup to tow with six pin connector (Pic 1) and an aux. power connector under the dash (pic 2) for Even Brake. I don't have power to the Aux 12v port. The port is wired to the left component in pic 3 when tested with an ohm meter but there is no power when connected to the MH. I checked and I do have 12v to the MH connector. Any ideas what the problem may be? I purchased an Even Brake from Ebay and everything works great but power when I have the Battery disconnect switched.
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Old 11-14-2015, 05:50 PM   #2
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brucev-

Are you asking "Why, if I put 12VDC on the center pin of the 6-pin connector, does it not show up at the Aux 12VDC port?"

The left-hand device in picture 3 looks like a circuit breaker. It has two connections. You say one goes to the Aux 12VDC port. Where does the other end terminate?

Mark
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Old 11-14-2015, 06:11 PM   #3
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You don't want to power your braking system from the motorhome. Why? If you have a brake away, you will have no power to the braking system.

So, you use the motorhome power to keep the toad charged and for brake power, you wire a 12V outlet from the toad battery to a someplace on the underside of the dash.

Coach charges the toad battery; the toad battery powers the braking system.
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Old 11-14-2015, 07:33 PM   #4
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Are you lookng for a 12 volt power source in your Jeep? Look inside the storage compartment between the seats. The one in the storage compartment is powered all the time. The one on the dash is only powered when the ignition is on.
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Old 11-14-2015, 09:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l1v3fr33ord1 View Post
brucev-

Are you asking "Why, if I put 12VDC on the center pin of the 6-pin connector, does it not show up at the Aux 12VDC port?"

The left-hand device in picture 3 looks like a circuit breaker. It has two connections. You say one goes to the Aux 12VDC port. Where does the other end terminate?

Mark
Mark,
I am trying to determine how the system is wired so I know what to check so that I can get power to the brake system. I'll check tomorrow and see if those are circuit breakers. I didn't really know what they are. I am not sure where the other side goes. None of them have 12v to them and I don't think they are wired to the toad battery because there isn't anything coming off the unswitched negative terminal at the battery.

Thank you
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Old 11-14-2015, 10:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyorancher View Post
Are you lookng for a 12 volt power source in your Jeep? Look inside the storage compartment between the seats. The one in the storage compartment is powered all the time. The one on the dash is only powered when the ignition is on.
I have those two 12v ports and both work but there is another added to the system that is dead. The two at the center consul are dead when the battery is disconnected (there is a disconnect at the battery neg. terminal). It is an 09 and jeep says battery needs to be disconnected since the key will be on. I don't have a wiring diagram and I thought maybe someone had a similar system, Roadmaster. All brake, tail and stop lights work when connected to the MH which may be another reason the battery is disconnected so the two systems don't interfere with each other. I don't really know. This is my first toad and still learning.
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Old 11-14-2015, 10:57 PM   #7
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They want the battery diconnected so it doesn't disharge. I would run a charge line to the toad and not disconnect the battery. They changed that in newer Jeeps. Mine is 2012 Wrangler. I don't have to unlock my steering.
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Old 11-15-2015, 05:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvlabs View Post
You don't want to power your braking system from the motorhome. Why? If you have a brake away, you will have no power to the braking system.

So, you use the motorhome power to keep the toad charged and for brake power, you wire a 12V outlet from the toad battery to a someplace on the underside of the dash.

Coach charges the toad battery; the toad battery powers the braking system.
Exactely right!!!
Basics...
You need a totally seperate battery feed from the towd vehicle battery to the veh dash to power the brake system. You do NOT want it to go thru any type of circuit breaker...it should be DIRECTLY wired to the battery. Even if the battery has to be disconnected, it will still feed the aux brake system. Yes, everytime you hit the brakes on the motorhome, the aux brake system will work, and draw a bit of power from the towd battery. A few long days of driving can cause the towd battery to go dead.
Thats why...
You need some type of towed battery charger. Again, this is a totally seperate system that will run from your motorhome via the switched hot wire in your plug, to the towed. It will act as a "trickle charger" and as long as your motorhome ignition is on, like when driving, it will trickle charge your towed's battery.
In most 6-7 pin plugs the "switched hot wire" is usually black, and a slightly heavier guage, 10 or 12 guage. That is the wire you use to draw electric feed from the motorhome to the battery charger, which will trickle charge the battery.
Even id the Jeeps battery has to be disconnected, this system will still work. It is not dependent on the vehicle at all.
Sounds complicated, but is very simple. As an example of what I'm talking about (and have) go to RVI2 brake systems and view their
1 12 volt battery direct kit
2 Towed Veh Battery Charge Kit.

You do not want to use the towd's stock "cigeratte" lighter type plug for power as it's usually a "lighter" type plug with a 10 or 15 amp fuse. The one's sold by the brake system manuf. are usually a heavier guage wire and have a 20 amp fuse, and is ment to ONLY power the brake system.

Once you see their products and view the vidio's you will see what needs to be done, the right way.
Grumpy
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Old 11-15-2015, 07:29 AM   #9
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brucev-

Hopefully your wire-tracing will reveal how the toad is wired.

If I may, I'd like to summarize:
1) Assumption 1- You have 12V power on the appropriate pin of your Thor's hitch socket. Please confirm. You wrote "I checked and I do have 12v to the MH connector," but I just wanted to clarify that you tested for a constant 12V at the socket, on the correct pin.

2) Assumption 2- The cable between the Thor and the toad carries 12V to the correct pin on the 6-pin plug (that would be the center pin). Please confirm.

3) The toad has a 12V disconnect switch connected to the battery's negative terminal.

4) The wiring and components from the toad's socket to the 12V socket in the dash area is to be determined.
5) A prudent wiring system from the toad's socket would work this way:
a) 6-pin socket center pin to battery positive post, 10 or 12 gauge wire, with either a fuse or circuit breaker mounted close to the battery. The fuse or circuit breaker is sized to match the wiring-usually 15A is used.
b) From battery positive post to Aux 12V outlet, same as a). Check towing system for recommended fuse or circuit breaker size.

The fuses/circuit breakers are needed to reduce the chance of fire should either of the direct-connected (to the battery) wires short to ground.

c) Use wire loom to protect all wires
6) Your toad is already wired. Although some will argue, if this was a new installation I'd use automotive GXL wire for all circuits, and nylon loom. Both are designed for under-hood service.
I think this captures each of the other poster's recommendations so far.

Please let us know what you find.

Mark


P.S.- Here's a link to the RVI2 videos to which grumpy0374 referred.

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Old 11-15-2015, 08:00 AM   #10
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Thank you for all the help. It is starting to sound like my system is anything but standard. Their are a number of wires connected to the two circuit breakers in the photo that I have not been able to trace down. I'll check to see if there are diodes connected to my tail an stop lights and if so then it may be easier to rewire the 12v outlet to go straight to the battery and then run the charge wire to the battery. I may also try and find a local shop to help determine what I have, but the last guy I asked wanted to charge me close to $3000 just for the even brake and tow bar. Anyway, thanks again for the help.
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Old 11-15-2015, 09:24 AM   #11
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brucev-

Don't worry. Every electrical installation in a toad is not standard. When I wired our toad, I created an as-built wiring diagram, more for me than the next owner (My memory isn't what it used to be).

I suggest you confirm the two assumptions listed in my prior post before anything else. It's be a shame to ring out the toad only to find that the center pin on the cable from the coach is dead.

It sounds as if you've got the skills to resolve this yourself (someone who didn't wouldn't know what an ohmmeter was).

The wire tracing should not take you long. When you're done you'll have a diagram from which to perform any modifications. Until you nail that down, rewiring what is there can result in electrical mysteries later on.

Feel free to send me a private message with your contact information. Sometimes these things are better resolved over the phone ("best" being able to see and touch the toad, but I'm on the other side of the country).

Mark
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Old 11-15-2015, 09:48 AM   #12
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Unfortunately several companies sell different types of wiring systems for toads. Some add totally separate wiring and bulbs powered by the MH. Others tie in the toad wiring. Nothing is standard. Since yours works except for the power to that under dash socket you need to trace those wires. It seems to me if you have a switch on the negative post of your battery to disconnect power then the only way to get power to that connector would be a wire from the negative battery post to that connector that is not switched. Therefore, try this. Do have power if the battery switch is on? If yes, turn the switch off. Meter positive probe on connector. Run a long wire and check to see if you have power on the connector by picking up the ground at the negative battery post. If you have power picking up the ground at the battery I suspect you are not picking up a ground in that connector. I suspect it should be an easy thing to fix but a few pix don't help that much. Maybe the PO never used power with a braking system. Braking systems do have their own battery. They work until that battery dies. Since that plug appears to me by looking at the pix to have a common ground doubt it was ever planned to have power at that plug when the switch was off. QUESTION: In your Jeep if you open the storage compartment between the seats is there another socket there???????? I have to take my power from that socket in my Jeep. I would have never found it except people on Jeep forum told me it was there.
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Old 11-15-2015, 04:32 PM   #13
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Okay, It looks like they wired power from the MH to the 12v receptacle and two or three other places but after reading your posts, I decided to wire in a new receptacle direct from the battery. The other problem I ran into is that my F150 no longer has a charge circuit at the plug. Not a big deal because I was just using it while the MH is in the house of incompetence having Roadmaster sway bars installed. Thanks again to all of you for the help and suggestions.
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Old 11-15-2015, 04:38 PM   #14
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Sometimes it is better to scrap what you don't have the documentation for and start over. I use an EvenBrake in my 13 Wrangler, I have not had any issues with a dead battery, so I suspect you may not need a charge line. I use the cigarette lighter plug in the console, but if I had one where yours is, I would disconnect the wires, pull them out, and run a new set of wires directly from the battery to it. The other side of it is, you may just want to abandon it. I installed the baseplate, and did all the wiring on the EvenBrake myself, it is easy to do.
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