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Old 09-26-2017, 12:54 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by hdridermlb View Post
A few days after we bought our 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland November 2016, I was looking in the engine compartment and noticed no hydraulic steering pump and thought OH NO!

So I called Jeep and was assigned a case number and was sent an email assuring me that even though the Grand Cherokee had electric steering as of the 2016 model, there would not be the same wobble issues as the Cherokee. I have that email.

I didn't install tow brackets until March, 2017.

April 2017, I experienced the death wobble making hard left turn from dead stop at an intersection that has dips in the roadway.

May 4, 2017 I took it to the dealer and they said they have no way of testing for this and the problem didn't exist. They would not write up a service order until I demanded to talk to service manager and he reluctantly wrote up a work order which is on file. It seemed like he was annoyed with me demanding this be documented.

September 24 2017 I called Jeep customer care and complained that it was still happening. I was assigned a case manager. I have to take it back to the dealer again in a few weeks and I expect the same result. The case manager assured me that if that happens, there will be a technical team that will contact me.

I got a call from my case manager to introduce herself. I explained to her going to the dealer was a waste of time and I had her look online at my previous visit to dealer and she said I have to go back to the dealer to kick off this process so that it will be elevated within Jeep. I mentioned the issue with the Cherokee while being towed and she was not aware of that issue and said her focus is on getting resolution to my problem.

The wobble has only happened from a dead stop and making a hard left or right turn and roadway is uneven. Never have a problem if it's a "sweeping " left or right turn on uneven roadway. Never a problem at speed in construction zones where there are quick lane shifts and uneven roadways where we go up and then down.

To be continued...
You may want to look over the many threads on this incl. the ones on the Cherokee forums (such as this one: Severe shaking problem towing behind motorhome - 2014+ Jeep Cherokee Forums). Pay particular attention to post #73 which refers to a patent for "Active shimmy mitigation" which FCA-Jeep applied for in 2010!

Before the time of that post (around Nov 2015) there was a lot of speculation about wheel alignment, balance, towbars, baseplates etc with the idea that a list with the idea that analyzing it could point to a solution. A month after the post, the OP told us all that Jeep told him a solution was forthcoming soon. Meanwhile many who had reported many hundfreds of miles 'wobble-free' were reporting that they had it the first time, some even realized that the event had happened to them earlier but they did not know what it was.

Since you are accustomed to looking under the hood, see if there are servo motors mounted on the steering system; if so this is a big hint that that it's the same a problem. This can be dangerous situation so please be cautious.
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Old 09-26-2017, 01:05 PM   #16
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New Plan - Jeep Grand Cherokee EPS Wobble

Good news folks!! FMCA is on board and will solicit a resolution from FCA-Jeep with us.

Late yesterday I received a call from John Johnston (fmca) and he likes our 2 step approach by filing a complaint directly with Jeep and accumulating the case reference numbers.

Also yesterday, I sent over 20 PM's to members who had Jeep GC in the signature but so far have received only 3 ref numbers. I'll wait a couple more days and send follow up PM's to those who did not respond.

We need a minimum of 10 members to share the #'s.

Las
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Old 09-26-2017, 06:56 PM   #17
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Good news folks!! FMCA is on board and will solicit a resolution from FCA-Jeep with us.

Late yesterday I received a call from John Johnston (fmca) and he likes our 2 step approach by filing a complaint directly with Jeep and accumulating the case reference numbers.

Also yesterday, I sent over 20 PM's to members who had Jeep GC in the signature but so far have received only 3 ref numbers. I'll wait a couple more days and send follow up PM's to those who did not respond.

We need a minimum of 10 members to share the #'s.

Las
Las,

Thank you very much for taking the bull by the horns on this issue. Knowing about FMCA's involvement in the Cherokee resolution will save us all a lot of time.

I'm in a quandary about filing a complaint when I only have an imagined future problem. I bought our '16 Summit with the intent of replacing our '11 Honda CR-V. On paper, the Jeep GC Summit EcoDiesel seemed to bridge the near impossible for us: Capable of being a 'toad' but still capable of towing 7,300 lb itself. Only a pickup truck could match this capability range.

This reported problem (and knowing about the Cherokee debacle) has kept me from spending the money and time to move my tow hardware over to the Jeep. But, I own (and pay insurance on) two cars where my objective was to reduce my 'fleet' by one Honda. When I get back from my next big road trip (leaving tomorrow), I'll go ahead and make the plunge.

If FCA gives us the run-around, I'll have to change out the 'toad' again. That Ford F-150 (especially if they get a diesel) is starting to look better...

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Old 09-26-2017, 09:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lass View Post
Good news folks!! FMCA is on board and will solicit a resolution from FCA-Jeep with us.

Late yesterday I received a call from John Johnston (fmca) and he likes our 2 step approach by filing a complaint directly with Jeep and accumulating the case reference numbers.

Also yesterday, I sent over 20 PM's to members who had Jeep GC in the signature but so far have received only 3 ref numbers. I'll wait a couple more days and send follow up PM's to those who did not respond.

We need a minimum of 10 members to share the #'s.

Las


Lass, got you PM today. I have a '16 GC Limited. I have towed it almost 10,000 miles (once for Cape Cod to LA and return Jan -Mar this year and we just returned from a trip to Newfoundland towing the GC, plus numerous short trips), no issues.

A couple more points of data I think you need to add to your spreadsheet.

Model GC including engine
Is it lifted or modified in any other way
Is there a charge line from the coach
Make and model of the tow bar
Make and model of brake system

I followed the Cherokee death wobble issue since I was aware that the culprit was the EPS, the same (I believe) EPS that is on the GC, so I was concerned it was in fact the root cause. I do not think everyone thought the solution was the true root cause. From what I have heard/read there are some Cherokees that have received the modification and still experience the death wobble, I suspect the root cause has not been identified.
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Old 09-27-2017, 06:20 PM   #19
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Count me as another Grand Cherokee owner who, after more than 10,000 miles of towing, has yet to experience any wobble on my 2016 GC Limited with an Ecodiesel and the Off-Road adventure II package.
I ordered this vehicle last summer (one of the last Ecodiesels produced) to replace a nearly identical 2014 GC that had suffered massive hail damage. At the time I was aware of the power steering change and was somewhat concerned due to the history of the regular Cherokee. I decided to just see what might happen, confident that if it became a serious problem, FCA would come up with a suitable solution. With over 32,000 miles (added to the 40,000+ miles I had on my 2014 when I traded) this vehicle has met all my needs. It's comfortable, capable of handling backroads with little drama, powerful and economical.
I'm not denying that others have had the wobble. I'm just curious as to why it's not been a problem for me. For the record, I have a Blue-Ox Avail tow bar, which has longer arms. Given the wide spacing on the GC attachment points, could the longer arms help reduce the chance of a wobble? (pure speculation on my part.) Could the fact that I also approach very tight turns at a very slow speed and try to make my turns as wide as possible make a difference? I don't know.
Hopefully, efforts by those who have had the problem to find a solution will be effective. IMHO, the GC is too nice a vehicle not to be a able to flat tow with confidence.
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Old 09-27-2017, 08:28 PM   #20
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New Plan - Jeep Grand Cherokee EPS Wobble

D Moffitt

Thanks for the information. I'll add your Blue Ox details to the spread sheet and send it to fmca.

To be, fair, I'm including owners who have not had a problem.

My biggest concern is what happens when I go over some railroad tracks at 30 mph.
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Old 09-28-2017, 05:59 AM   #21
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... That Ford F-150 (especially if they get a diesel) is starting to look better...
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Originally Posted by DrDaveMA View Post
... From what I have heard/read there are some Cherokees that have received the modification and still experience the death wobble, I suspect the root cause has not been identified.
The F150 as of 2011 has EPS. (Electric power assist steering on new F-150 - SAE International).

Having followed the Jeep KL Cherokee issue since it's inception, I've seen all the talk about baseplates, towbars, angles, wheel alignment, balance etc.... yet it ultimately boiled down to someone discovering that FCA had known since 2010 that there was an inherent wobble tendency in their All-Electric EPS design. That is, this type of EPS uses electric motors provide the assist to the steering rack. The other type of EPS, Hydraulic-Electric, has an electric pump providing fluid pressure to an hydraulically operated rack-and-pinion; it's sometimes called hydraulic-over-electric EPS.

During the early days of KL Cherokee wobble reports, some felt that the tendency to wobble was exacerbated by absence of any hydraulics in a steering-suspension design that may already be prone to wobble. The wobble events of 2016+ WK2 Grand Cherokees after a change from Electric-Hydraulic to All-Electric seems to support this theory. (the addition of an hydraulic steering stabilizer to the KL was suggested and we learned that there's just no room to add one).

@DrDaveMA: I have heard/read of several Cherokees which have had the wobble-wiring kit installed incorrectly, but not of any Cherokees with properly installed kit continuing to have the problem. Specifics of such reports would be helpful.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:14 AM   #22
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Lass, opened up a report with FCA this morning, ref: 32500862. Grand Cherokee Limited, V6, 10,750 miles, no lift or other mods (except to tow). Roadmaster EZ4 tow brackets, Sterling Tow Bar, Tow Defender, Quiet Hitch, SMI Stay-In-Play Duo, Toad Charge. Thus far have towed about 10,000 miles with no problems.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:23 AM   #23
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@DrDaveMA: I have heard/read of several Cherokees which have had the wobble-wiring kit installed incorrectly, but not of any Cherokees with properly installed kit continuing to have the problem. Specifics of such reports would be helpful.


Please review the multiple threads dealing with the Cherokee Death Wobble, several people state they had the death wobble occur AFTER the mod was completed, as well as folks that just were no longer responding so you can not determine if they are fixed or just gave up. Unfortunately the ones that had a reoccurrence after the mod was installed, we cannot determine if they were properly installed.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:36 AM   #24
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I am one that has a 2014 Cherokee that has experienced the wobble after the fix. Will see if dealer will check to confirm the installation. Fortunately only slow speed incidences on last trip! May be a while but will report back when I can.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:44 AM   #25
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I am one that has a 2014 Cherokee that has experienced the wobble after the fix. Will see if dealer will check to confirm the installation. Fortunately only slow speed incidences on last trip! May be a while but will report back when I can.
Here's a check you can make to determine if the wiring kit is actually activating the EPS. First, with engine off and the Cherokee parked, verify that the steering wheel is tight and not easy to move. Now go thru the procedure specified in the kit with switch and fuse (make sure it's not blown) and activate the EPS as if you were about to tow it. After a short delay you should notice the power steering assist is there and it's as easy to turn the wheel while stopped as it would be when the engine is running. If you do not notice that assist the kit is either defective or not properly installed.
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Old 09-28-2017, 12:17 PM   #26
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Well I checked as rpasetto advised ( thanks by the way ) and I found no difference in steering with or without the fuse and switch set. Looks like I have a bad install!
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Old 09-28-2017, 02:16 PM   #27
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Well I checked as rpasetto advised ( thanks by the way ) and I found no difference in steering with or without the fuse and switch set. Looks like I have a bad install!
You are welcome. Many dealers are not familiar with towing vehicles behind motorhomes, may not realize what the "kit" is supposed to do.

Sorry to 'hijack' this Grand Cherokee thread with these posts but if the GC fix is a similar wiring harness one you all will have the same thing.
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Old 09-28-2017, 03:11 PM   #28
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As of today, I have received input and Case Reference numbers from:
lass (me); mhudson; Ol Opa; PeteandDeb; hdridermlb; rewillia; rstano; & DrDaveMA. Thank you!!!

Sent a second set of PM's to members who had previously identified a wobble situation while towing but have not responded : 13charlie; Barmats; bd041556; Bpoland; Crabby Mike; FlyCMA; & jlr44

I am also keeping a log of members who responded that they have not experienced the wobble but are concerned that they may in the future.

We need to get to minimum of 10, so if you know any of the members who have not responded, try to contact them.

Las
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