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Old 05-18-2014, 12:06 PM   #15
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Towing the car is basically the same as putting it on the roof as far as weight is concerned. It is additional mass that the engine has to move and stop. I know it not exactly the same as far as tires and suspension is concerned.
It is still more mass. More weight more fuel!! That is one reason to make cars lighter.
Gary
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Old 05-18-2014, 12:11 PM   #16
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^^^ and putting it up there in neutral wouldn't be a good idea either.
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Old 05-18-2014, 12:32 PM   #17
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Really if your toad is in a neutral gear you can almost push it yourself by hand. So all you RV pros go ahead and let me have it but I just don't get it
Yes, you can 'push it yourself by hand.' Take the car out in a big, flat space. Push your car, get it moving, then run around to the front and STOP it. Momentum and inertia are curious things. When moving anything, you have to overcome inertia and stop momentum. The ratings aren't just to make you buy a bigger tow vehicle, they are based on engineering limits.
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Old 05-18-2014, 08:20 PM   #18
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Lots of good comments. Thanks for not calling me an idiot. I think most concerns seem to be about stopping the toad which I agree is a critical issue. I believe I addressed that concern with a quality toad braking system( I use a ready brute) I appreciate the comments
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Old 05-19-2014, 12:22 AM   #19
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I don't want to hijack the thread, but would like to know more, as I am towing a 3000# Chev Cobalt 4 down using a 10" drop.

Roger
My answer to a 10" drop hitch. The white paint is to help me line it up when connecting. The hitch also has whited paint. I don't care what anybody thinks about it being painted.
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Old 05-19-2014, 07:05 AM   #20
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Gas Coaches that have frame rail extensions added by the coach builder are generally much weaker than original frames, hitch ratings from coach builders take this into consideration.
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Old 05-19-2014, 09:22 AM   #21
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Lots of good comments. Thanks for not calling me an idiot. I think most concerns seem to be about stopping the toad which I agree is a critical issue. I believe I addressed that concern with a quality toad braking system( I use a ready brute) I appreciate the comments
gthunts
My 35' Safari DP, (fully loaded for travel with my toad attached), weighs a total of 23.900 lbs.
The GCVWR, (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating), of my coach is 28,000 lbs.
My coach tows and stops my toad, (which has no auxiliary breaking system), with absolutely no problem.

BTW, (if my 2900 lb toad would fit in a compartment), I could SAFELY carry my toad IN my coach, because the GVWR, (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating), of my coach is 24,000 lb.

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Old 05-19-2014, 09:23 AM   #22
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Lots of good comments. Thanks for not calling me an idiot. I think most concerns seem to be about stopping the toad which I agree is a critical issue. I believe I addressed that concern with a quality toad braking system( I use a ready brute) I appreciate the comments
The stability of the combined vehicle is also a design criteria. Mass is a critical component here as is the center of gravity in a 3 dimensional way. Take a clock pendulum. It works, yes? Now put a hinge in the middle, it still weighs the same, does it work? .you get the idea. A pendulum is 2 dimensional the toad is hinged in two axes.

Physics is a wonderful thing, get crossways with it and it will run you over without an after thought.
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Old 05-19-2014, 09:39 AM   #23
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Since we all know the concept of gravity (vertical force) and deal with it every day, it is a lot easier to visualize and take into account of this force. Horizontal force is not any different, it needs to be taken into account with the MH frame, braking system and the way we attach extra additional forces to the monstrous machines we all love. Take heed to the numbers your MH came with... numbers were invented for a reason.
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:10 AM   #24
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Since we all know the concept of gravity (vertical force) and deal with it every day, it is a lot easier to visualize and take into account of this force. Horizontal force is not any different, it needs to be taken into account with the MH frame, braking system and the way we attach extra additional forces to the monstrous machines we all love. Take heed to the numbers your MH came with... numbers were invented for a reason.
Very good point.

I think all too often we dispute the calculations of engineers who we oft time see as being very conservative with their numbers.

Unfortunately we fail to appreciate the repetitive cycles we subject our vehicles to. We start/stop and repeat countless times. Use the engine brake, step on the gas, repeat. And we expect the universal joints to last forever no matter what. Stuff wears and sometimes the maintenance is questionable. But we expect the life of the unit to pull, stop and last.

Brake performance deteriorates during the life of the brakes. New brakes will stop much better than brakes near the end of their life. Dry brakes will out perform wet brakes but the load remains the same. Toad brakes work but sometimes the connection comes loose or is not properly connected, what if it fails. How often have you seen units pulling trailers in the mountains going down hill with the brakes on the tow unit smoking and nothing from the tow unit?

Please use the numbers as they are published. If you do not agree with them, get a degree, do the testing and prepare different charts.
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Old 05-19-2014, 12:45 PM   #25
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My answer to a 10" drop hitch. The white paint is to help me line it up when connecting. The hitch also has whited paint. I don't care what anybody thinks about it being painted.
Dunner,
I have seen the picture of your hitch before never asked, what tube did you use Chrome moly? Looks like 3/4". I also use a 10" dropped hitch but it's a Reese Straight Line equalizer. Had it from when I pulled a 30 ft travel trailer with my Yukon XL. The only thing it pulls now is a 20 ft enclosed trailer hauling my daughters four seat razor.
Any thoughts about using an equalizer hitch with a MH?

Chuck
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Old 05-20-2014, 08:39 AM   #26
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My answer to a 10" drop hitch. The white paint is to help me line it up when connecting. The hitch also has whited paint. I don't care what anybody thinks about it being painted.
I like your hitch support rods. What is this connection point at the coach? It looks too wide for the frame rails in the pic.
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