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Old 05-16-2014, 09:21 PM   #1
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OK, everyone pile on

I know I'm gonna get pounded for this but here goes. I don't understand why there is so much concern about toad weight and GVW. if you are towing 4 down there is almost no extra weight on the MH chassis. I understand the concept of having a vehicle pushing you in a braking situation but if your toad has a braking system that pretty much prevents the push. I know the extra weight puts a little more strain on the MH engine and tranny but once again in a 4 down situation even that is minimal. Really if your toad is in a neutral gear you can almost push it yourself by hand. So all you RV pros go ahead and let me have it but I just don't get it
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:25 PM   #2
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Boy did you open a can of worms!!!
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Old 05-16-2014, 09:27 PM   #3
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You are assuming driving on level ground, driving up steep grades places considerably more strain on the MH drivetrain. Sure I could push my Jeep a short distance on level ground, but up a 1% grade might put me in the hospital. And it's not the GVW that matters here, it's the GCWR, and the towing weight limit of your MH hitch framework.
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Old 05-16-2014, 10:04 PM   #4
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I agree that steep grades will work the MH harder. That's a no brainer. Sorry for using the wrong letters for the vehicle weight. I also agree that you should have a hitch capable of handling your toad. I think we can agree that most MH hitches properly installed will accomplish the task. I still don't agree with adding a 4 down toad to gross vehicle weight since the toad supports it's own weight
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Old 05-16-2014, 10:24 PM   #5
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here is one side to think of it

its not about stopping the the load its about keeping it stoped

the allison 1000 and the 2000 are the same thing but have a max towing rate
the allison 2100 is all most the same thing but has a higher tow ratting and it is has the park pal out of the unit and a parking brake unit installed on the drive shaft

so its more what can your parking brakes hold on a % of a hill when parked
what can .. now only 4 tires hold back on the rear axle
that is what it really mostly comes down to

you may have brakes of every tire

but when parked whats stopping all that from rolling away

so 99% of every one here that parks on a hill is not going to keep there foot on the brake why some one puts the towd in park
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Old 05-16-2014, 10:44 PM   #6
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I am not entirely sure what GCVW really is. It seems to be a magic number that manufacturers come up with to stymy everyone who wants to tow anything. Same with GVW, GAWR rear and GAWR front. I expect there are engineers sitting in a back room somewhere trying to frustrate as many people as they can by developing those numbers.

Without directly speaking with them I suspect that they factor in a number of things. My bet would be on stress on frame, transmission, driveline, brakes and any number of things they consider their chassis will safely pull. Thinking things through they take into account the whole of life for the vehicle. At least I hope they do and these are not just numbers for a brand new vehicle.

Although you have reduced your tongue weight the weight of the toad counts just as much as the weight of a trailer. Given you can push your toad is no different than if we had a free flowing wheel on the hitch of a trailer. I have pushed a trailer for a short distance on a concrete floor but would not do it very far.

I empathize with you. I want our coach to pull 20,000 but it only is rated for 15,000. Going to have to live with it or buy a heavier coach.
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Old 05-17-2014, 08:26 AM   #7
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I know of folks who tow WAY and I mean WAY over the rating of the motor home.. That said.. Stopping is my primary concern and you have addressed that concern well.. But going up hills is another.

And I've had a hitch break because it was not up to hauling the rated load when using a drop hitch adapter.

Plus as someone mentioned, Engine/drive train/transmission stress.

But as I said, you addressed my PRIMARY concern (Panic stop)
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Old 05-17-2014, 11:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wa8yxm View Post
And I've had a hitch break because it was not up to hauling the rated load when using a drop hitch adapter.
I don't want to hijack the thread, but would like to know more, as I am towing a 3000# Chev Cobalt 4 down using a 10" drop.

Roger
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Old 05-17-2014, 11:26 AM   #9
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99% of every one here that parks on a hill is not going to keep there foot on the brake why some one puts the towd in park
terry
You park your rig on hills?
How do you level it?
Mel
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Old 05-17-2014, 11:29 AM   #10
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I don't want to hijack the thread, but would like to know more, as I am towing a 3000# Chev Cobalt 4 down using a 10" drop.

Roger
Some manufacturers of the drop hitches provide a weight reduction chart to go with their product, because of the mechanical advantage, the leverage of the drop puts on the hitch . Some come with a flat warning that they reduce the hitch's tow capacity by 50%.
I'll see if I can locate a copy.
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Old 05-17-2014, 12:15 PM   #11
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I'm more concerned about things like U-Joints.
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Old 05-17-2014, 12:37 PM   #12
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For the original question...It's not smoke and mirrors...Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) is the total mass that the driveline in the pulling vehicle is designed to move within all design conditions. This includes mountain driving and freeway speeds.
See RVIA definitions here: Definitions and Terms | RVSEF

The trailer or car having brakes is an expectation. The weight on the tongue is an expectation. Engineers expect these parameters to be followed.

The reason to avoid exceeding GCWR is to keep from blowing up the engine or more likely from smoking the transmission due to heat build-up.

Can you exceed GCWR...? Sure, but the driveline can be damaged, warrantee will usually be voided, and if there was an accident, insurance might not pay and/or the police might try to procecute.

Safe travels
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Old 05-17-2014, 01:19 PM   #13
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terry
You park your rig on hills?
How do you level it?
Mel

yep i am sure we all do

in the drive way at home when not camping
parking lots
there is alot of places to park you RV on a trip on your way some where

you can be driving down a 7% grade hill and see a crash or stuck behind one or even brake down on the side of the road on a hill

we do it all the time with out thinking about it so again its not about stopping the load as your brakeing system is XX over the size you need to stop ... its more about keeping it stop and one set of parking tires can only hold back so much befor you start to slide down hill
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Old 05-17-2014, 02:18 PM   #14
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Hook her and go. You are wasting time.
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