RAM/JEEP EcoDiesel DEF Issues

[filterbiz]

steve
i am a service manager at a ford truck center and so we see def issues frequently.
1st i would start with taking a trip to the dealership and have them test the def in front of you while you watch them remove it from your tank, calibrate their refractometer (urea tester) and drop your def on the lens and show you it fails

if it does have them do the same test with fresh def right out of the bottle. when you have bad def and there is no contamination chances are tons of people will have the same problem and the def manufacture is responsible.
my gut says they did not calibrate their refractometer before testing your def and there is a warrantable failure they need to find.

just my .02

chris

[spinn]

Thánk you Chris. I will do just that. Setting they filed out with their own brand on Thursday they will be hardpressed to blame it on bad DEF again. This is so sad because we really like the vehicle

[spinn]

Well here it's the latest update. 2 more Check Engine Lights since having paid for the DEF cleaning. First time the light was on for 2 days and went out add i was driving to the dealer, they claimed they couldn't pull codes now that the light was out (yeah i know). This time i got it there while the light burned bright. Called dodge and talked to my case manager. Dealer says there are close to 30 codes now ( since last week?). They are attributing everything to an oxygen sensor and a new ecm update. Well wee will see how this works out. They are not very forthcoming on whether or not the $500 cleanup was necessary

[Durango382]

Originally Posted by spinn

Well here it's the latest update. 2 more Check Engine Lights since having paid for the DEF cleaning. First time the light was on for 2 days and went out add i was driving to the dealer, they claimed they couldn't pull codes now that the light was out (yeah i know). This time i got it there while the light burned bright. Called dodge and talked to my case manager. Dealer says there are close to 30 codes now ( since last week?). They are attributing everything to an oxygen sensor and a new ecm update. Well wee will see how this works out. They are not very forthcoming on whether or not the $500 cleanup was necessary

Sounds like you're much closer to getting this resolved - I just hope you paid for that cleaning and re-def'ing with a credit card so if the dealer refuses to credit you back what they charged you for work that was based upon their now obvious errant testing, you can contest the charges!

I have a '14 Cherokee with the same engine, and recently had the MIL come on out of the blue (at about 7500 miles). Come to find out the thing had FIVE recalls on it all being reflashes of the various ECU's (they use various acronyms for the various things those control) - not only did the reflash cure the MIL (at least so far) but the Cherokee ran much better with much more pep! It was the one I test drove when I bought it, and I never knew it could be any better until now! But now I am much more impressed with it's "out of the hole" performance - not that I do much drag racing in it! (LOL)
I have a '13 heavy duty Ram which also uses DEF and have never had a problem with it and now have about 11K miles on it. And of course, the coach has DEF also and it's never had an issue either. (hopefully I haven't jinxed myself by posting this!)

But a previous diesel Ram had the MIL come on once, and they determined it to be due to a sensor. Replaced the sensor, and a few hundred miles back on came the MIL. They found out the next "deeper" sensor was also bad, replaced that, and never had an issue after that. Sometimes these high tech vehicles are tough to troubleshoot - but when a dealer makes an error in their diagnosis, they need to "eat" the cost and not try and pass it on to you. Luckily I live within fifty miles of five CJDR dealers so have some choices when it comes to who does service on mine - I'd be looking for another for service if I were you, once this is fixed.
Good luck!

(one last story that made me look closely at the OP in the first place - I was at the FL dealer and a guy who is responsible for the maintenance of an entire fleet of OTR trucks belonging to a major food distributor told me one of his drivers was out in Bum-F Egypt and the DEF got so low the thing went into limp mode...so the driver called him and he suggested that the driver put distilled water in the DEF tank to see if that would get it running until he could get DEF. The driver did, and the truck ran fine even after getting DEF when he got back to civilization...so you can see why I questioned the validity of the testing the dealer claimed they performed)

[MRUSA14]

To the OP: I am curious as to who made this supposedly bad DEF you used. I have never had a problem with DEF, but have only purchased it from Flying J and Walmart. I have many friends with Cummins DEF engines and none of them have ever had a DEF problem. It just doesn't sound right to me what you were told. I suspect it is the fault of your engine and not the DEF.

[spinn]

Marc it was Peak Blue DEF purchased at a local Wal-Mart. I had heard stories (here on irv2) about people buying def at Wal-Mart using the product, refilling the container with water then returning it. For that reason i had checked that the seal on the DEF container was in place.

[MRUSA14]

Steve, I have used that same brand of DEF and it hasn't caused any problems for my engine. I doubt that it was the cause of yours.

I attended a Spartan owners class where they spent a whole session on DEF as it is used by our Cummins engine. We were told that as DEF gets old, it loses some of its potency, but that it would not matter as the engine adjusts by using more DEF to compensate. Surely if your DEF was out of spec by 1% it should not have caused a problem. If the truck sat still for six months or a year the DEF would no doubt lose more potency than 1%.

Further denigrating the "bad DEF" analysis is the fact that changing the DEF did not cure your engine. I think that someone misdiagnosed the problem and stuck you with the bill. I think they owe you a refund and a warranty engine repair.

[dvmweb]

And all he wants his truck to be fixed. That is all. Keep us posted and good luck.


2013 FleetWood Expedition 38B

[spinn]

Thanks everyone for the encouragement. Well yesterday was 2 days since 2 sensors were replaced, another new flash update of the ecm. Engine is running great and yesterday while on the highway "Ding" its on again :( . six times in 3 weeks. I am getting to see more of the dealer than I am of Arizona! Well of to the dealer again.

[Durango382]

Originally Posted by spinn

Thanks everyone for the encouragement. Well yesterday was 2 days since 2 sensors were replaced, another new flash update of the ecm. Engine is running great and yesterday while on the highway "Ding" its on again :( . six times in 3 weeks. I am getting to see more of the dealer than I am of Arizona! Well of to the dealer again.

As many times as you've had the thing in the for same issue - does AZ have a Lemon law concerning vehicles? In CA they'd either be fixing it or getting a new one...
Best of Luck! ( I love mine and I can only guess how distressing this can be to you )

[spinn]

Originally Posted by Durango382

As many times as you've had the thing in the for same issue - does AZ have a Lemon law concerning vehicles? In CA they'd either be fixing it or getting a new one...
Best of Luck! ( I love mine and I can only guess how distressing this can be to you )

Thanks! Actually we purchased the vehicle in Texas (our home) but will not be back there until May. We really like our RAM as well just this one persistent and perplexing issue

[spinn]

Followup
We have driven about 1k miles since chrysler had the dealer change 2 sensors, the def injector and def pump.
I works! No further problems up to this point and we are very happy. Chrysler is working to refund us the cost of the one repair or at least to give us a bunch of oil change credits. At the price of an oil change in this vehicle this might be a deal!

Thanks everyone for your help and encouragement.

Steve

[dvmweb]

Hope that's the fix. Good luck.


2013 FleetWood Expedition 38B