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Old 03-03-2015, 04:13 PM   #1
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RAM/JEEP EcoDiesel DEF Issues

10k miles on our RAM 1500 Ecodiesel and I have just had my 5 CEL (check. Engine light). 4 days ago the light came on with a message that it detected DEF fluid. I took it to a dealer who reported that there was a Dodge advisory on this issue, they did their magic and of i went (5 hours later). Yesterday the CEL pops up again (maybe 50 miles driven) this time the dealer claims that the DEF is bad??? (It conforms with the ISO requirement RAM published) and since it is a user problem it will cost me about $500.00 to drain,clean and replace the DEF. OUCH

Any Ecodiesel users here ever have a similar problem?

Thanks Steve
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Old 03-03-2015, 07:39 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinn View Post
10k miles on our RAM 1500 Ecodiesel and I have just had my 5 CEL (check. Engine light). 4 days ago the light came on with a message that it detected DEF fluid. I took it to a dealer who reported that there was a Dodge advisory on this issue, they did their magic and of i went (5 hours later). Yesterday the CEL pops up again (maybe 50 miles driven) this time the dealer claims that the DEF is bad??? (It conforms with the ISO requirement RAM published) and since it is a user problem it will cost me about $500.00 to drain,clean and replace the DEF. OUCH

Any Ecodiesel users here ever have a similar problem?

Thanks Steve
Steve,
I'm no expert on this stuff what so ever but, If I were you, I'd check with your local Bureau of Auto repair and see if that DEF system is or is not, part of the federal rules on smog systems. If it is, then ANYTHING that's smog related, has federal warranty period (of course serviced by the dealerships) of what used to be 5 year 50K miles.

I'm really surprised that they're MAKING you pay for something that would be considered warranty. I'd also call, if you can, any factory reps that might have your area as their jurisdiction. I know if it were mine, I'd be screaming bloody murder in the serviceman's face if he told me to pay for something that the truck itself is having an issue and it was still under warranty. That doesn't mean I'd win but, they'd surely know about my feelings.
Scott
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Old 03-03-2015, 08:01 PM   #3
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You are in the wrong repairshop= Take it to another Dodge Dealer
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Old 03-04-2015, 12:05 AM   #4
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Scott thank you for the information on the federal mandates. I read a couple of Dodge forums and this seems to be a recurring problem. I did call Dodge and they have signed a case officer to my complaint. The dealer claims that there DEF fluid I was using was 1% low on urea so I am responsible for the problem. Their cure is to drain, flush and refill (3 hours labor and $100 in material) my suggestion was to add 100 grams of urea to the tank to bring up the concentration. You can guesses who won! (I'm the one who is out $500!). I will be filing a product liability report with the vendor i expect to win that and get $12 back for the out of spec DEF Lol.

I will continue to pursue this with Dodge but if this problem is impacted by the federal ruling I may get someone's attention (or a cease and desist order&#128522

Thanks again - Steve
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Old 03-04-2015, 09:59 AM   #5
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With the addition of the DEF system to diesel engines, that killed my interest in any diesel vehicle of any kind. Keep after the dealer getting it fixed under warranty. I had an extended warranty thru Chrysler on my 2007 Jeep Liberty that was having the check engine light come on and having starting problems took 2 months of going back to the dealer, but finally got evaporative emissions hoses and fuel pump replaced under warranty for my $100 deductible. Dave
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Old 03-04-2015, 10:11 AM   #6
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if you are using def that is or does meet the standards, the dealer is wrong.

this engine is an OLD workhouse from italy, we tortured them in gov vehicles back in the day.

the urea system , may need calibrating
lots will throw it out of whack, extreme cold, shelf life of the urea, etc.

stick to your guns and press them to fix it right and not get off by saying the urea is bad...thats a cop out in my book, especially if it keeps coming back

get more flies with sugar if you now what i mean, but stand your ground
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Old 03-04-2015, 04:06 PM   #7
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Seems to me the question of the viability of the DEF needs to be confirmed - good or bad. If bad DEF was put in the system that would be beyond Dodge's control (no different that if you'd put gas into the diesel fuel tank) and would not be covered under warranty. If the DEF was in spec, there's something wrong with the emissions system on the truck which should be covered under the afore mentioned, federally mandated, emissions system warranty.
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Old 03-04-2015, 10:15 PM   #8
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Seems to me the question of the viability of the DEF needs to be confirmed - good or bad. If bad DEF was put in the system that would be beyond Dodge's control (no different that if you'd put gas into the diesel fuel tank) and would not be covered under warranty. If the DEF was in spec, there's something wrong with the emissions system on the truck which should be covered under the afore mentioned, federally mandated, emissions system warranty.
That is pretty much the way i looked at it. The dealer claimed the DEF was out off spec of course there are not a lot of ways to confirm that but it is what it is. Conversely if the DEF is out of spec and there is a federal pollution requirement i may have some recourse with the DEF manufacturer. Unfortunately there is no easy way to test DEF before you use it, well i guess i could get a refractometer.
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Old 03-05-2015, 09:47 AM   #9
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Man.....I'd wonder how the dealer can check the urea concentration that closely ?
Urea in DEF is only 33 % with balance being treated water. Would take some pretty sophisticated equipment to determine a 1 % deficiency ! Make sure you get a sample of the " defective " DEF before they throw away the evidence.
What brand of DEF did you use ?
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Old 03-05-2015, 11:36 AM   #10
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First off, as a couple posters above me stated, having a "testing system" that can catch the "1%" DEF inefficiency MUST be a pretty sophisticated system. I have no idea just what's involved. And, second, is this the ONLY time that a DEF product, (no matter who it's made by) has been determined to be the cause of a diesel engine operating issue? Is there "Case Law" of it already happening?

And third, if this happed, or, is happening to this one person, (the OP here), does this pave the way for dealerships to "worm out" of repair costs (whatever is needed to correct the incorrectly operating engine) because of improperly mixed DEF fluids sitting on shelves across the nation?

Fourth, how in the world would any diesel driver, driving a motor home, pickup truck, passenger car, long haul, FIRE TRUCK, and a whole host of other diesel powered equipment that utilizes the DEF treatment, be able to know whether or not, the fluid he/she just purchased, from Joe Shmoes AM-PM market, in the middle of east jock strap, or, even in down town metropolis USA, is a properly mixed, (all percentages of correct chemicals)?????????

We are reading here, about ONE PERSON, in ONE DEALERSHIP that's having this problem. We, including me, are arbitrating that he, stand on the dealer to fix his issue, at no cost to him. While I still agree to that premise, is there a real basis for the dealers reason for their statements? Another words, is the DEF solution in the OPs rig, really bad? Again, how would any of us ever know, if we were purchasing bad DEF fluid? I don't have that problem because mine is a pre-DEF system.

But, I, like many of you that have a DEF system, would most likely add DEF fluid, way before it runs out. That would mean that, you could be adding BAD DEF fluid to GOOD DEF fluid. And, if the bad stuff was strong enough to damage the good stuff, how long would it take? I figure you'd be a zillion miles away from where you THOUGHT you might have purchased the bad stuff, providing IT was bad in the first place.

Lots of Rambling here, I know. But, unless we can be assured, somehow, that either the specs on the production of DEF fluid are seriously tight or, "tightened", or, the mechanisms that measure, calibrate and inject the DEF systems in diesel engines are adjusted to be a bit more "lenient" of "slightly off mix" of DEF fluids, how would we all know, if we wouldn't end up in the same situation as the OP?
Scott
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Old 03-06-2015, 10:46 AM   #11
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You will see more info on this I'd you go to Jeep Grand Cherokee forum and do a search using word DEF. Others have had that issue. If dealer gives you hassle, call dodge Customer Care.
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Old 03-06-2015, 10:56 AM   #12
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There was an article about DEF being bought at Walmart.
The person said that when he got it home he saw the seals
were broken and found it was water.
He feels that someone bought the DEF, used it, refilled the
jugs and returned them to W/M.

If there are seals on the containers, make sure they are not
tampered with.
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Old 03-06-2015, 12:53 PM   #13
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Thanks all i have a case open with dodge customer care and am waiting to speak with them. Dealer's report says the urea concentration was between 30.5 and 31 ( he didn't give units)with a minimal acceptable value of 32.5. Of course they also tested for hydro carbons to make sure i didn't put diesel in the def tank, that came back clean.
I must say that dodge customer care was very responsive after calling and receiving a case number i was contacted by a case manager within 24 hours, unfortunately i missed his call and am now playing telephone tag.
I will let you know the outcome.

I had heard about the Def issue and had checked the expiry date and seal.
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Old 03-06-2015, 11:34 PM   #14
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Well I am still waiting for the dodge agent to call back but in the meantime what should happen? "Bing" Check Engine Light again. At least this time I got 50 miles before it returned. At least they can't blame me for bad DEF this time!
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