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Old 06-14-2007, 07:04 PM   #15
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****NEWS FLASH***** After being torked off at the Saturn costomer assistance hotline and getting pretty much the same answer that Roamer got, I decided to go take a further look at my problem. I started in the battery compartment and looked to make sure the "after market(AM)" wire my RV tech installed was disconnected as he instructed me.... and it was, however, I noticed that the hot wire for the AM was still connected and thought that it might be sending erroneous signals to the computer. I disconnected it at an inline fuse he had installed and started the vehicle and VWAALLLAAHHHH!!!! Everything seemed to be working as prescribed, no problems with the trac control, stab control, or cruise contrl. That solves one problem, now the PITA battery disconnect issue is still out there. Oh and by the way, my wife was driving the car this evening after I "fixed" it (lol), I happened to be behind her in my truck... Now the brake lights come on and stay on for no reason. Guess I'll put my temporary Saturn/Dinghy technician hat back on tomorrow and try to figure this one out... Does the fun ever end?

Porchdog: Ironically enough, I am not directly related to him nor have I met him. But, we both know of each other and are always asked the same question. I believe he has a son that is high up in the state police also. Small world. How do you know him?
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Old 06-14-2007, 08:33 PM   #16
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5 minutes worth of charging is insignificant - we do that regularly and it has no noticeable effect on our dead battery problem.

You only get a few amps of charge at idle or slightly above, so running for five minutes gains you maybe one amp-hour.
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Old 06-15-2007, 08:30 AM   #17
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PORCHDOG:
I find out that towing a Saturn Outlook 4 down results in a dead battery unless you disconnect the negative battery cable not simply pulling a fuse like the advertisement says! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a 07 Saturn Vue. I made my own charge with a separate cable using 14 gage wire for the ground & Positive using 15 amp fuses on each end. I taped onto the main battery cable feeding the Onan starter. I am not pulling any fuses on the Saturn and battery is not going dead. I used this same charge system on my 2001 LaSabre with out pulling fuses and had no problems with dead battery. The charge circuit has to supply more power than the load on the dinghy battery. You could measure the load on the battery by using an amp meter between the negative battery cable and the battery post. Good luck;

Don
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Old 06-16-2007, 10:52 AM   #18
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Thanks for the suggestion, Don. Your Vue is probably not as much of a power hog as the Outlook & Acadia, but your solution will probably still work. I would want to put in a diode, though, to make sure the current flows only towards the car. I was going to do essentially the same as you did but decided to use the new Toad Charge produce since it already incorporated the diodes, charge regulation, short circuit protection, etc. However, the 5A it produces is inadequate for my Acadia.

I suggested to the Toad Charge people that they should produce a higher amp version , but could get no response from them.
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Old 06-17-2007, 09:20 AM   #19
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Gary, Is there anything on the regulator to indicate it's manufacturer or model number to see if a higher amp model is available. The circuit breaker is available in different amperagess but I can't find other voltage regulators. At least not yet. The other Don's idea of a simple charge line with fuses and a diode may be the best answer. With a DP having batteries at the rear makes it easier still.
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Old 06-17-2007, 12:18 PM   #20
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The Toad Charge unit is made by LSL Products and the regulator etc, is in their package. I've emailed them to ask about a higher current charge regulator, but no response so far. I haven't tried to take it apart to see if the regulator is some standard design, but given the small package they use I suspect the regulation is custom.

Calling it a regulator is probably being generous - my guess is that it is simply a current limiting device with short circuit detection.
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Old 06-17-2007, 02:43 PM   #21
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I neglected to state I installed a Roadmaster HY-Power Diode in line. If I read the specs right it should supply enough amperage.

Diode

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Old 06-17-2007, 08:22 PM   #22
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I haven't found any specs online for them - did you? Or did you just order some and get the spec sheet with the diodes? When you say "enough", are you thinking 15A? The Blue Ox diodes are 4A or 6A (depending on which one you get), which is about what I would expect for use with toad lights. Can always put a couple of them in parallel, though, to increase the amperage.

I emailed Roadmaster Tech Support to ask.
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Old 06-18-2007, 11:00 AM   #23
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I emailed Roadmaster Tech Support to ask. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heard from Roadmaster on the Hy-Power diodes. They are more than sufficient!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
The amperage load capacity is 85 amps.

Deanna Williams
Customer Service
deannaw@roadmasterinc.com
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Old 07-03-2007, 06:32 PM   #24
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Just got back from a 10 day trip down to Fla so kids could see Mickey and Shamu. Never had a problem with battery drain during the 4 total days (2 down and 2 back) utilizing the 50 amp fuse pull procedure. It also kept the cigarette lighter socket powered for the brake assist. The car tows like a charm and had to keep looking at the rear view to make sure it was really there! Now I just need to install a switch on the fuse line to make it a little easier. But as far as the intial problems with the dead batteries, I think the problem is solved. Just wish they would have fixed it prior to us Outlook, Acadia, and Enclave owners had to deal with the headaches!
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:48 AM   #25
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Thanks for the report - glad to hear the 50A fuse disconnect works as we hoped. That's really great news. I wonder why GMC & Saturn are reluctant to suggest that alternative - maybe just playing safe???

With respective to another alternative, I have received the 10A version of the Toad Charge and will install in the next couple of days, but won't have a chance to test it out for another several weeks. The upgrade kit consists of a new charge unit and wiring on the car end and a new relay on the coach end. LSL has the complete 10A version for sale on their web site now, so maybe somebody else will be able to report on it before I do.
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Old 07-04-2007, 10:00 AM   #26
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MORE GOOD NEWS!

GM has issued a new a service bulletin on towing with the Acadia/Outlook/Enclave. It revises the trailer towing capacities and the "recreational towing" procedures. It legitimizes the procedure we discovered and tested on out own, i.e. removing the 50A Batt1 fuse for dinghy towing.

I trust the GM will not object to displaying the complete text here - it is, after all, information intended for vehicle owners.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Subject: Supplemental Information on Recreational Vehicle and Trailer Towing and Trailer Wiring Accommodation for Non-V92 Equipped Vehicles #07-00-89-021A - (06/27/2007)

Models: 2008 Buick Enclave

2007 GMC Acadia

2007 Saturn OUTLOOK

This bulletin is being revised to add models and revise dinghy towing procedures. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 07-00-89-021 (Section 00 - General Information).

The purpose of this bulletin is to inform dealers of special procedures necessary when towing a trailer or when towing the vehicle behind a recreational vehicle.
Towing a Trailer

Trailer Weight Information
The following chart shows how much the trailer can weigh, based on the vehicle powertrain combination. Retailers should refer customers to the appropriate Owner Manual for important trailering tips, vehicle maintenance, and safety rules before towing a trailer.
Vehicle Maximum Trailer Weight
3.6L V6 (LY7) Engine with Front-Wheel Drive and 6-Speed Automatic Transaxle (MY9) with Trailer Provisions (V92) 4,500 lb. (2,041 kg)
3.6L V6 (LY7) Engine with Front-Wheel Drive and 6-Speed Automatic Transaxle (MY9), NO Trailer Provisions 2,000 lb. (907 kg)
3.6L V6 (LY7) Engine with All-Wheel Drive and 6-Speed Automatic Transaxle (MH6) with Trailer Provisions (V92) 4,500 lbs. (2,041 kg)
3.6L V6 (LY7) Engine with All-Wheel Drive and 6-Speed Automatic Transaxle (MH6), NO Trailer Provisions 2,000 lb. (907 kg)
Towing a Trailer with a Vehicle NOT Equipped with Trailer Provisions
2008 Buick Enclave, 2007 GMC Acadia and 2007 Saturn OUTLOOK vehicles that are not equipped with trailer provisions (RPO V92) must be modified with a new underhood bussed electrical center (UBEC) to provide full functionality for 4 circuits: ground, tail lamps, RH and LH stop/turn lamps. Refer to the Parts Information section in this bulletin for the correct part numbers. To find the original part number, remove the UBEC and look at the side of the UBEC.
This UBEC replacement should only be performed for customers who perform trailer towing. UBEC replacement for trailer towing is only covered under warranty for 2007 model year GMC Acadia and Saturn OUTLOOK vehicles, and 2008 Buick Enclave vehicles.
Towing a Trailer with a Vehicle with Trailer Provisions (RPO V92)
The following procedure may need to be performed to the backup lamp circuit. Perform this procedure only if the customer will be using the vehicle to tow.
1. Disconnect the X7 connector from the Body Control Module (BCM).
2. Remove the terminal for pin 3 from the BCM X7 connector. The wire to this terminal is dark blue and is the 38 circuit.
3. Re-connect the X7 connector to the BCM.
4. Cut the terminal off the end of this wire and strip the end of the wire.
5. Splice this wire into the 24 circuit wire that goes into BCM connector X6, pin 2. The 24 circuit is light green.
Recreational Vehicle Towing (Dinghy Towing)

Important: To avoid battery rundown while towing, remove the 50 amp BATT1 fuse in the UBEC. Refer to the dinghy towing procedure in this bulletin.
Recreational Vehicle Towing Information
Important: Vehicles with a 6-speed automatic transmission that are "dinghy towed" must be started at the beginning of each day and at each fuel stop for a minimum of five minutes.
Recreational vehicle towing means towing the vehicle behind another vehicle -- such as behind a motorhome. The two most common types of recreational vehicle towing are known as "dinghy towing" (towing the vehicle with all four wheels on the ground) and "dolly towing" (towing the vehicle with two wheels on the ground and two wheels up on a device known as a "dolly"). With the proper preparation and equipment, many vehicles can be towed in these ways. Refer to the appropriate model/model year Owner Manual for towing preparation guidelines and dolly and dinghy towing procedures. The Towing Chart below summarizes powertrain combination compatibility with dolly and dinghy towing methods.
2008 Buick Enclave, 2007 GMC Acadia, 2007 Saturn OUTLOOK Recreational Vehicle Towing Chart

Powertrain Combination and Towing Method Rear Wheels on a Tow Dolly Front Wheels on a Tow Dolly All Four Wheels on the Ground (Dinghy)
3.6L V6 (LY7) Engine with Front-Wheel Drive and 6T75 Six-Speed Automatic Transaxle (MY9) No Yes Yes*
3.6L V6 (LY7) Engine with All-Wheel Drive and 6T75 Six-Speed Automatic Transaxle (MH6) No No Yes*
*Notice: If the vehicle is equipped with a 6T75 six-speed automatic transmission, it can be dinghy towed from the front for unlimited miles at 65 mph (105 km/h). To avoid vehicle damage, never exceed 65 mph (105 km/h) while towing Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia and Saturn OUTLOOK vehicles. The repairs would not be covered by the warranty.
Dinghy Towing Procedure
Notice: If you tow your vehicle without performing each of the steps listed under "Dinghy Towing," you could damage the automatic transmission. Be sure to follow all steps of the dinghy towing procedure prior to and after towing your vehicle.
Notice: Don't tow a vehicle with the front drive wheels on the ground if one of the front tires is a compact spare tire. Towing with two different tire sizes on the front of the vehicle can cause severe damage to the transmission.
Important: Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia and Saturn OUTLOOK vehicles may only be dinghy towed from the front, with all four wheels on the ground.
1. Position the vehicle to tow and then secure it.
2. Shift transmission to PARK (P) and turn the ignition to OFF.
3. Set the parking brake.
4. Turn the ignition to ACCESSORY.
5. Shift your transmission to NEUTRAL (N).
6. To prevent your battery from draining while the vehicle is being towed, remove the 50 amp BATT1 fuse in the UBEC, and store in a safe location.
7. Release the parking brake.
Once you have reached your destination, do the following steps:
1. Set the parking brake.
2. Reinstall the BATT1 fuse.
3. Shift the transmission to PARK (P), turn the ignition key to OFF and remove the key from the ignition.
4. Release the parking brake.
Parts Information

Part Number Description
25784721 Underhood Bussed Electrical Center
(replaces 25784722)
25784723 Underhood Bussed Electrical Center
(replaces 25784726)
25784725 Underhood Bussed Electrical Center (replaces 25784724)
Warranty Information

For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:
Labor Operation Description Labor Time
N1730 Block Assembly, Wiring Harness Junction - Engine - Replace 0.3 hr

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION

Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

" name=forward Document ID# 1993341 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Old 07-04-2007, 07:21 PM   #27
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Yeah, I'm finally getting that warm fuzzy back about this car. It was gone for a short time there but I'm back to being glad I bought my Outlook.
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