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Old 08-23-2013, 08:01 PM   #1
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Service and Unhappy Results

I need some advice.

I called a service shop (Don't want to specify the place at this point). Told them I have a 2010 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport that I would like to tow behind my MH. The person was great, put everything in the system, told me all the parts/labor etc. I took that information, researched it and called back later getting a different person who looked me up in the system and recommended a second option because they like it better. Basically the difference between the braking system. I like her option better after doing the research. They sent me the estimate via email and we scheduled the work for yesterday and today.

I dropped off the Jeep Wed. night, they worked on it all day Thursday installing everything needed for the tow bar and braking system. Drove over 3 hours to get the MH, dropped it off Thursday night and they finished up late this afternoon.

I get there and I find out they have not tested the system. So we hook the Jeep up to the MH, getting everything exactly like we are supposed to and go to put the Jeep in tow mode. We were not sure how, so we opened up the owners manual and found the section on it. First thing is says is, if you have a 2 wheel drive Jeep, you must remove the drive shaft to tow. WHAT!!! Yes, I realize out here on this forum, you were already seeing where this was going because you are very knowledgeable about this this type of thing, but I had no idea! So there we are crawling under the jeep to determine what a big pain in the butt this would be and I am furious.

So, basically, the system is of no use to me because I am not willing or capable of removing and replacing that every time.

The Service Manager is very quick to point out that they are not at fault AT ALL for this as it is not their responsibility to determine if the vehicle is towable or not. They are the ones that had to ask me what type of vehicle I drive to know what parts to order.

Do you guys agree? Do you think that when I called up and asked for an estimate, they shouldn't have verified that the vehicle was of the right type?

I don't want to be ugly to them, but I just don't understand how this could happen. Am I being unreasonable? Shouldn't they have some or all of the responsibility on this?

Please give me your thoughts. I am sure there are many.

Thanks...
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:11 PM   #2
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Wow, this is quite a situation. The installer should have known better. You asked them to provide everything needed to tow, but they fell short of doing so. But when push comes to shove the liability question likely falls to whatever written work order may comment.

Maybe try to work out something that gets the Jeep towable and shared expence and liability for the situation. See if Remco makes a transmission pump, or maybe a driveline disconnect system exists - and you could work out something with the shop regarding installing such additional equipment.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:22 PM   #3
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Sorry to hear about your towing problems. They do make disconnect devices which can be mounted with a new or re-balanced drive shaft, as well as lube pumps... You may need to do some research.

Store : Remco

I fortunately did not experience your problem, the entire system was installed in one day while I waited, I went with them on a test drive/tow and received a 'class' on how to hook everything up. I do have a 4WD Wrangler Automatic, but that was a question I was asked when talking with the service rep on the initial order. I had mentioned my wife's vehicle (a 2wd auto) and was told I would be better off in the long run to stick with the 4WD jeep.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:24 PM   #4
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Remco makes a drive shaft disconnect if that is any help. I know a few people who use one. I don't know if I would hold the shop responsible or not. I had done all of the research on flat towing before I bought our CRV.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:26 PM   #5
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Sorry to hear the troubles but I don't think it's the responsibility of the installer to determine whether your specific vehicle is towable. If you did all this research why did you miss the fundamental issue- Can the car be towed 4 wheels down?

If they make a tow bracket for your vehicle there must be configurations of that make and model which can be towed. Probably 95 percent of the Jeeps they have installed brackets on were towable. Yours is the exception but you're the one who should know that

I hate when I make dumb mistakes but I don't think you can ask someone else to take responsibility for them.

Maybe trade the Jeep for the same vehicle that is towable. They might give you a break on taking the equipment off the present one and installing it on the new one just to help you out
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:36 PM   #6
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I gotta go with the shop on this one. A 2010 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport is certainly towable, if it's the 4WD model. Not the RWD. But the transmission has no bearing on the baseplate, lights, or braking system. So expecting them to know which one you have ahead of time isn't reasonable, and I can't really fault them for not noticing it doesn't have the transfer case lever while doing the other work either.

At this point, your best bet is to put in the Remco lube pump. If you had looked into this before starting, trading for a 4WD might have been a practical option. But I don't think it would make sense now.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:52 PM   #7
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50/50 you should have known better and done your homework, and the shop should have caught it....
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:00 PM   #8
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djenkins452 ,
Well Sir, without sounding like the inevitable "I told you so", in all reality, this IS your fault. Now, I'm definitely not jumping on you here. What I'm saying is, you've most likely been on the forum for a while, and probably visited many sections of it. People often ask about many types of possible intended toads on this section and, even the other sections that are not really toad related. And the most noted answer is to those folks who ask about a certain possible toad is: "Did you check the owners manual for instructions for flat towing"? Another answer is: "Did you check with the Dinghy Towing Guide of the model year you're intending on purchasing"? Many will answer using Remco as a guide but, I've seen them wrong, more than once. So, it's up to the individual to use them.

So, without further "bashing" on my part, my answer to your situation might be something along these lines.

Yes, you are ultimately responsible to purchase a toad that is "flat towable", not any one else, including any facility that will be providing any service of installing of any parts/components of towing. They are primarily only there to discuss what is to be used/sold in terms of parts and components for your vehicle. There are many service writers, receptionists, parts people, phone answerers, that cannot tie their own shoes. So, expecting for someone on the other end, to be real competent in a situation like this is, for the most part, not really real.

But, on the other hand, yes, there are folks, workers, owners of RV repair facilities, techs, etc. that are really on the ball and, quite possibly might have stopped the entire install of all your components, because they're familiar with those vehicles that can be flat towed and those that can't.

The techs that installed your equipment, most likely was just following orders from a shop supervisor and, that shop supervisor never thought to ask, "Is this flat towable" or, mention to you that, "You know, this vehicle IS NOT FLAT TOWABLE, ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT US TO INSTALL ALL THIS EQUIPMENT?

To be up on all the latest, in terms of knowing what vehicle is flat towable and what ones aren't, is up to the individual that may be the shop forman, or shop supervisor. However, it may not be part of their job description. If they take the time to learn the majority of them, it's most likely just voluntary on their part.

Now, as to your next move. Since it really is NOT their position to tell you that your rig is not flat towable, you will most likely have to pay all of what's required of you for the work done. I'm certainly with you on the removal of, and re-install of, the drive shaft each and every time you get ready to tow or, want to disconnect and use the toad. That sucks big time. Try doing it in the mud, or on 130 degree hot pavement, or, at 10:00 or 11:00 at night when you just arrived at your camp sight and the entire camp is asleep, YEAH SURE!

Now, one more move that you COULD think about is, the addition of a drive shaft disconnect system that some are still using. I'm not a fan of them but, apparently some are. I've read many reports on here an other forums from folks that had them and say: "Never again", due to the fact that the mechanism is a splined set of teeth and, those teeth get all gummed up with road debris, grease, mud, gravel and more and, when it comes time for you to put it back into driving mode, the mechanism won't move due to all the gunk that has accumulated on the two moving components. Those folks have had to continuously get under there and clean the splines to allow for them to "engage".

Well, that's not for me either. I've been down on and, gotten up from, a creeper probably , in all reality in my life, more than several thousand times, I don't plan on doing any more than I have to.

So, what to do??
1. Remove all the components that were just installed and,
2. Sell that vehicle and possibly find one like it that is "Four wheel drive and, flat towable" and, if possible, re-install those components. This option will be quite expensive.
3. Get the drive shaft disconnect installed and, possibly have to deal with its issues.
4. Remove all the components that were just installed, sell them, and get a trailer that will haul the vehicle.
5. A dolly might be in the future too, I'm also not a fan of those but, it's a preference thing.

Good luck, and, sorry for your dilemma.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gio8856 View Post
50/50 you should have known better and done your homework, and the shop should have caught it....
Get the shop to agree with this - work it out with the shop to make it tow-able.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRE UP View Post
5. A dolly might be in the future too, I'm also not a fan of those but, it's a preference thing.
You can't use a dolly for a RWD vehicle. Only FWD.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDiver View Post
You can't use a dolly for a RWD vehicle. Only FWD.
What if you put the rear wheels on the dolly?

As info to the OP, the Jeep you mentioned can be flat towed with a lube pump kit from www.remcotowing.com.

Part Number :LP-BK01-002 Price :$950.00

Problem solved.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:24 PM   #12
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What if you put the rear wheels on the dolly
Not safe. The front wheel geometry isn't designed to roll backwards - it's not stable and will wander and put a lot of wear and stress on the entire setup.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:31 PM   #13
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I have seen several cars and pickup trucks towed with the rear wheels on a dolly. I seems to me that a jeep is a lighter vehicle that a rear wheel drive pickup. You would still have all of the equipment that was installed, but you might check with a tow dolly company to see if this might be an option. Eddie Elk.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:45 PM   #14
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Oops...should have done a better job on your research for the Jeep. I have had 2 different vehicles set up for towing behind my MH. Before I even purchased the vehicle I had information that the vehicle was tow-able behind a MH. Did this BEFORE I contacted a shop to install equipment.
Now it kinda looks like a drive shaft disconnect is your best option. I would do this before I got a tow trailer.
All that said....sorry to hear of your troubles. Best of Luck.
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