Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Toads and Motorhome Related Towing
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-19-2012, 02:17 PM   #15
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 982
barrier2 - Being at/above/below GCWR (or GVWR) makes absolutely NO difference to the FACT that adding toad brakes via a toad brake system WILL shorten braking distance/time for the entire rig. That's real world physics.

The religious issue is always - is a "toad" a "trailer" - as most states have "trailer" laws w/o explicitly mentioning if a "toad" is a "trailer".

Take the lawyers out, w/o explicit legal definitions from each state it's a personal choice how to interpret the - is a "toad" a "trailer" - argument and hence the reason why these threads rant and rant and rant.

However, the fact a (properly operating) toad braking system DECREASES overall braking time/distance is NOT refutable.

ottffss is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-19-2012, 02:59 PM   #16
Senior Member
Vegasdan's Avatar
National RV Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,873
Another obvious thing is without a toad brake, what happens if your toad breaks away from your rig due to a tow bar or hitch failure? You are launching a 4000 lb unguided vehicle into someone else' path. With your toad brake and a break away system your toad will stop on it's own.

2001 National Tradewinds 7370 300 Cat
2011 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sport
Officially fulltiming. The Journey Begins
Vegasdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 03:02 PM   #17
Senior Member
Possum's Avatar

Winnebago Owners Club
Vintage RV Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cherry Creek, BC Canada
Posts: 6,983
If you pull it, it is a trailer. If you put the "59" on wheels and haul it behind your motorhome it then becomes a trailer. Albeit one that you probably couldn't move but, still a trailer.

Too many people don't understand the simple laws of inertia.
Denise and Dennis Dalla-Vicenza Co-pilot Mizzie
Gracie a Winnebago 29 RQ +
George a Suzuki Toad
(Co-pilots emeritus Furb, Izzy & Mikkael)
Cherry Creek British Columbia
Possum is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 04:18 PM   #18
Moderator Emeritus
TXiceman's Avatar

Vintage RV Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Oklahoma Boomers Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Full Time, TX Home Base
Posts: 17,139
Blog Entries: 21
Originally Posted by DennisZ View Post
Most states actually don't require brakes on a toad even if they require them on trailers.

Dennis, how does the motorhome determine if the load it is towing a trailer full of 4000# of rocks or a 4000# dinghy. I don't think the technology exist.

And per the laws of physics, 4000# of rocks take the same braking energy as a 4000# dinghy.

I think it is silly to try and cheap out on the safety of a braking system by convincing yourself that it is not technically a trailer.

Plus, you really need a break away system on the dinghy because tow bars and hitches have been known to fail.

And, if the dinghy braking systems only stops you 6" shorter, that may be the difference between a near miss and several thousand dollars of damage to multiple vehicles. I learned a long time ago, the two things not to try and go cheap on are brakes and tires.

Amateur Radio Operator (KE5DFR)|Full-Time! - 2012 6.7L Ford Crew Cab Dually -2013 HitchHiker Champagne 38RLRSB - Travel with one Standard Schnauzer and one small Timneh African Gray Parrot
TXiceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 04:49 PM   #19
Senior Member
62_inrightlane's Avatar
Forest River Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Florida / Georgia / Michigan
Posts: 481
Short answer is Yes!

When I bought my MH I didn't think I needed them and then started looking at some of the problems if you don't have a supplemental breaking system.

1. They are a safety feature for you and they do make huge difference. Last year coming out of a campground in southern Indiana we jumped on I-65 and about 15 miles up the road a 18 wheeler came around me, while I was driving 65 in the right hand lane He cut right and front of me and continued off the shoulder of the road. He slammed into the guard rail a couple car lengths in front of me. When he slammed into the guardrail I slammed on my brakes and my system probably kept me from hitting the back left of his trailer. The driver was fine but shaken up. Not sure exactly what happened, however he may have fallen asleep or been on his cell phone. I was instantly relieved that I had spent the money on the system. Will never tow without it!

2. Almost every state has a law on supplemental brakes based on weight. Most of them do require system on 3,000# towed trailer or vehicle.

3. If you are towing a vehicle, or trailer, in a state that requires them and you get into an accident and don't have a system you will have insurance problems.

Don't tow without one!

Be safe!

Marc & Jan
Molly, Abby & Katie | The Cocker K-9 Kids!|Toad 2014 Cadillac SRX
2012 Berkshire 360FWS, Brake Buddy Vantage|Wineguard Travler SK-3005 |TST 507 TPMS
62_inrightlane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 05:14 PM   #20
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 113
Thanks for the information everyone. I guess that I need to decide between a Brake Buddy or a Blue Ox Patriot or a Ready Brake? Any advice which is best ? The Patiort and the Brake Buddy seem very similar but the Ready Brake seems quite different. Hard to choose?
John Stott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 05:47 PM   #21
Senior Member
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 21,174
There are 3 sets of laws involved

"State" laws (The ones on the books) Many states do require brakes on towed trailers or cars over xxxx pounds.. (xxxx varies from state to state) SOME actually say "Car in tow" Some only say "Trailers" but if you look up what a trailer is, a Car in tow 4-down. fits the description 100% (I know, I did look it up). Some states are not so requiring... Yet...

Laws of Physics: One aux brake maker says it can make up to a 30% difference in stopping distance.. Personally I think they are working very hard to find the precise combination of vehicles where that is the case. But even if it is only 3 percent.

if that 3 percent makes the difference between a safe, controlled stop with no damage, and holes in the front of your rig....

Civil law.. This is fairly uniform over 49 states, but again there is some variation.

If it's my REAR end that has the damage.. I'm going to call some real good lawyers and talk with them about "Reckless Endangerment" and see just how much they can soak you for.
Home is where I park it!
wa8yxm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 05:53 PM   #22
RVM 18
okmunky's Avatar

Solo Rvers Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Fulltimer, SD resident
Posts: 5,084
Why I chose ReadyBrake -- Lowest price, no 30# box to lift in and out of car or store, easy to install and use and great reviews from others here.
Barb (RVM18), Sena (capuchin monkey, RVM Head Mascot) & Lily (Maltese/Yorkie)
2011 Shasta Cynara 230F & 2012 Smart Car toad, 272 watt solar system
The Journey is Our Destination. Full-timing since 5/18/2011 and loving it.
okmunky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 05:59 PM   #23
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 363
Better to be safe then sorry. The cost of a Toad braking system is not great in relation to the total cost of the RV. We have a air brake system and are much comfortable with it.
JBDISCOVERY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 06:20 PM   #24
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Debary Fl
Posts: 464
I'll stay out of this one, execpt to say make sure you comply with the laws in your home state. Otherwise in the event of an accident problems will arise. Just me but I'll take all the brakes I can get
Bruce Linda and Zoey
1999 ForeTravel U295
012 orange Jeep Wrangler
bbeane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 06:40 PM   #25
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,048
It really doesn't matter what the state laws say regarding brakes for towed vehicles if you're towing with a gas powered motorhome. Both Ford and Workhorse say supplemental braking is required for anything weighing over 1,500 lbs. Neither company gets into the semantics of whether a towed vehicle is considered a trailer. Both just say: ANYTHING BEING TOWED THAT WEIGHS OVER 1,500 LBS. NEEDS SUPPLEMENTAL BRAKES!!!
2013 Adventurer 32H
Hikerdogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 06:45 PM   #26
Senior Member
MJFZ's Avatar

Newmar Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,078
My last motor home was a 1999 Holiday Rambler Vacationer 32' Ford gas chassis. I towed a 1996 Acura Integra without supplemental brakes. I towed it about 20,000 miles up and down the east coast of the U.S. The only issue’s was running through several red lights at intersections where I was headed down a steep hill and the stop light caught me at the wrong time. Once in particular, in Boone, NC I boiled the front brake fluid and fortunately for me I cleared the intersection without incident. From that incident forward I treated every stop light with more respect. This year, with a new motorhome and a new toad, I have bought the Brake Buddy—just in case I need to do an emergency stop.

2016 DSDP 4369
2012 DSDP 3734--sold
2012 Jeep Liberty Limited
MJFZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 06:53 PM   #27
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 186
Originally Posted by texnet View Post
Most states do not require the toad to have additional brakes, but 19 states REQUIRE them. I wouldn't won't to travel trying to avoid the states that do. Also, would not want to be in a accident and be blamed for not stopping soon enough regardless of laws!

See http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm look at the column "Brake Laws Towed Cars"

And... http://www.brakebuddy.com/Towing-Laws
Be aware that Towing World's chart has errors. For example it says that North Carolina has "NO LAWS" when it does indeed. here's what NC law says:

Every semitrailer, trailer, or separate vehicle attached by a drawbar or coupling to a towing vehicle of at least 4,000 lbs, and every house trailer weighing at least 1,000 lbs, shall be equipped with brake controlled or operated by the driver of the towing vehicle.

I have emailed them several times in the past, pointing out the NC State Law (and included a link to the statue) and they have not bothered to corrected the chart.

PHESPE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 07:02 PM   #28
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 186
Originally Posted by Barrier2 View Post

I believe if the Lawyer on the other side were to state that the Motor Home was well within the correct load capacity lack of a supplemental braking system would not be a valid argument as long as it were below the posted GCWR. Of course this is if the Tow Bar, Hitch, Mounting Brackets were all installed correctly and used properly and if the MH was in good operating condition.
How would said lawyer explain away the warning (that many, not all) MH Makers have; eg, supplemental braking required for towed loads greater than 1000 lbs.

Note: I know this is not a exact quote but is the sum and substance of the warnings given by MH manufactures.

PHESPE is offline   Reply With Quote

toad, brakes

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities

Copyright 2002-2015 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:06 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.