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Old 02-26-2012, 12:43 PM   #57
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I am always baffled why people need a "law" (or the thought one might exist) to simply do what is SAFE. Take some personal responsibility, do the SAFE thing, law or no law.
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Old 02-26-2012, 02:03 PM   #58
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If ever there is a vehicle combo that didn't need more brakes it is mine, But I still have brakes on my trailer becasue they work and give me peace of mind.
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Old 02-26-2012, 02:09 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by ottffss View Post
I am always baffled why people need a "law" (or the thought one might exist) to simply do what is SAFE. Take some personal responsibility, do the SAFE thing, law or no law.

Exactly.
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Old 06-23-2012, 08:46 PM   #60
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interesting post it reminds me of my old days of being on tractorbynet. Lots of opinioins. I guess I can throw mine in here.

I agree with the one poster. If your vehicle is made to stop 35000 pounds gvwr then it really does not matter whether it is inside the coach or being drug behind it. The amount of friction coefficient that actually stops is the same. There might be some arguement about the actual weight in the coach pushing down on the tires versus some of the weight of the mass being off of the tires and not actually addiing to the downward push of the tires but I would imagine that is not going to be that much of a difference.

The chances of your tow vehicle becoming a missile I would think should be pretty slim. I believe most people use some type of safety chain. It is pretty inexpensive to buy those and whether or not you a towed vehicle is a a trailer I am going to go on a limb and say if you get stopped by a policeman and he does not see some type of safety chain he is going to say a lot about that. ( Almost got a ticket because I only had one safety chain on a trailer behind my pickup once. Did not get the ticket because the chain had managed to come off and drug on the ground dragging the hook out.) However if something does happen that your vehicle gets unhooked and is saved by the safety chain a breakaway device that applies brakes before it hits the end of the chain might save you from a nasty repair bill to the back of your coach and the front of your towed vehicle.


Liability for an accident is what it is. People that will sue are going to look for everything they can. Insurance company lawyer is going to try and defend you. Judge will decide who has the best attorney.


If we are talking about lawsuits over liability claims then I would really reccomend an unbrella policy over anything. Is very inexpensive and if the other side has a better lawyer than you it might save your hiney from paying big bucks.


I am not making a decision over whether or not to get brakes for my towed vehicle. I am just deciding which system to get and right now I am leaning towards the RVI system because I can store it in the storage compartment of my Enclave and I cannot some of the other portable systems.

I also have umbrella insurance. It covers my home 3 cars 1 motorhome, 8 rental houses up to a million dollars and it is less than 500.00
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:27 PM   #61
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5362,

Take a look at Ready Brake. There is NOTHING to store.

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Old 06-24-2012, 01:23 PM   #62
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One of the things I hear a lot, even from folks who know better, is how much farther it takes to stop a "Big Rig" than a car.

Here is the basic info you need, simplified for the "Same stretch of road"

Skid distance of car times the square of the speed of your RV, = Sikd distance of your RV times the square of the speed of the car.

So if you and the car are both going the same speed, you skid the same distance.

WITH ALL WHEELS LOCKED

Now, if you have a few thousands of trailer (Which is what a car in tow is, at least under Michigan law) then

Your skid distance is a great big formula with a much larger answer than the one for the car.

Thus,, To the question "DO I need Brakes on the Towed?"

If you rear end me, Either you have those brakes or I get rich, take your pick. Since I understand the importance of aux brakes on the towed I will sue if you rear end me, Reckless Enganderment, one million dollars.
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:09 PM   #63
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We have motor homed for 11 years now. We've had 5 coaches and we've always used a Brake Buddy (Blue Ox now) everywhere we go. Our last two coaches were 42' tags and you're right, our MH didn't even know our tow'd was back there, when accelerating or braking. I did it primarily because of a 'breakaway" situation where my Jeep did become a projectile; I'd never forgive myself if someone was hurt or killed by something I could have prevented so easily. But then we were on I-12 outside New Orleans just coming off that old arch bridge. Construction everywhere and bumper to bumper traffic; I let a semi come in front of me cause he was stuck in the left lane with no courteous drivers to let him back in. He had no sooner got in front of me and whoa ..... his trailer started skidding and smoke was comin' off all his tires as he braked as hard as he could. I did the same. All six of my brakes were on full and all eight tires were smokin' too. I would not have made it without that Brake Buddy; no doubt in my mind. A driver about 10 vehicles behind us was killed when his tractor got airborne and exploded. We could have wound up as part of the rear of that trailer in front of us and it wouldn't have been pretty. Why on earth would you not want your multi thousand pound towed vehicle to have functioning brakes??
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:19 PM   #64
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wa8,

If tow brakes are not required by law in the jurisdiction your theoretical rear end accident happens you lose.

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Old 06-25-2012, 02:56 PM   #65
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Well said jauguston.

I live in the Province of British Columbia, Canada where the rules for auxiliary braking requirements when towing are quite simple and very easy to understand:

MOTOR VEHICLE ACT REGULATIONS Continued
B.C. Reg. 26/58
Division 5 Brakes

Section 5.02. (7) Brakes and coordinated brake control are not required on a towed motor vehicle that has a laden gross vehicle weight less than 2000 kg and that is less than 40% of the gross vehicle weight rating of a motor home towing it via a tow bar.

[am. B.C. Regs. 69/59, s. (j); 46/67, s. 10; 226/67, s. 4; 205/72, s. 6; 343/77; 459/77, s. 2; 256/84, s. 6; 257/96, s. 1; 109/97,

FYI: 2000 kg. is 4409.2 lb.


The 40% rule will apply to vehicles that weigh less than 5000 kg. or 11023.1 lb.

P.S.1 As far as I know, none of the auxiliary braking systems available today meet any kind of FEDERAL / STATE or PROVINCIAL standard.

P.S.2 In British Columbia, the same people that make the DMV rules i.e. the Government of B.C., are also the same people who insure us - ICBC, the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia.


So who are you going to sue wa8xym.

Additional information:
home.roadrunner.com/~morodat/toad-brakes-by-state.html
and for Canada http://www.rvda.ca/ProvBrakeReqts.asp

http://www.airsafehitches.com/Towing_Laws.pdf
http://www.readybrake.com/state_laws.html
http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm


Title 49--Transportation

CHAPTER III--FEDERAL MOTOR CARRIER SAFETY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
PART 393--PARTS AND ACCESSORIES NECESSARY FOR SAFE OPERATION


393.52 Brake performance.

(a) Upon application of its service brakes, a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles must under any condition of loading in which it is found on a public highway, be capable of

(1) Developing a braking force at least equal to the percentage of its gross weight specified in the table in paragraph (d) of this section;

(2) Decelerating to a stop from 20 miles per hour at not less than the rate specified in the table in paragraph (d) of this section; and

(3) Stopping from 20 miles per hour in a distance, measured from the point at which movement of the service brake pedal or control begins, that is not greater than the distance specified in the table in paragraph (d) of this section; or, for motor vehicles or motor vehicle combinations that have a GVWR or GVW greater than 4,536 kg (10,000 pounds),

(4) Developing only the braking force specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section and the stopping distance specified in paragraph (a)(3) of this section, if braking force is measured by a performance- based brake tester which meets the requirements of functional specifications for performance-based brake testers for commercial motor vehicles, where braking force is the sum of the braking force at each wheel of the vehicle or vehicle combination as a percentage of gross vehicle or combination weight.

(b) Upon application of its emergency brake system and with no other brake system applied, a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles must, under any condition of loading in which it is found on a public highway, be capable of stopping from 20 miles per hour in a distance, measured from the point at which movement of the emergency brake control begins, that is not greater than the distance specified in the table in paragraph (d) of this section.

(c) Conformity to the stopping-distance requirements of paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section shall be determined under the following conditions:

(1) Any test must be made with the vehicle on a hard surface that is substantially level, dry, smooth, and free of loose material.

(2) The vehicle must be in the center of a 12-foot-wide lane when the test begins and must not deviate from that lane during the test.

(d) Vehicle brake performance table:

I have taken the following information from that tables Section A. (3) viz.:

For motorhomes over 10,000 lb or 4536 kg. the required stopping distances from 20 mph., are,

35 ft. when applying the vehicles normal braking system, and

85 ft. when applying the vehicles emergency braking system.
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:05 PM   #66
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We just came down Wolf Creek Pass yesterday, in our 2012 Discovery 36J, towing our 2010 GMC Acadia (5000 pounds). One trip down that mountain will convince you that you need brakes on your towed vehicle.
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Old 06-25-2012, 06:55 PM   #67
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I just don't understand why anyone would be willing to take the chance of not having toad brakes.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:12 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wa8yxm View Post
For many years the web sites that list towing laws all said Michigan did not requrie brakes on a towed car but did on a trailer.

Finally.. Some of them have done what I did and looked up the defination of "Trailer".

Michigan has no law saying "a car being towed needs aux braking systemS"

Michigan has a law saying "Trailers over xxxx pounds must have brakes"

(NOTE: I do not off hand knwo what xxxx is but have copy of law on HD)

Michigan also has a law which defines a trailer as Any vehicle WITH OR WITHOUT MOTIVE POWER towed in such a manner so as the weight of the vehicle does NOT rest on the towing vehicle.

In short.. a car towed 4-down **IS A TRAILER**

Most of the 'not required" states.. Have similar language in their vehicle codes.
In WA a motorized vehicle being towed by another motorized vehicle is NOT a "trailer", it is a "combination vehicle" and changes the braking laws to a performance spec. CA, OR and WA use a performance spec. CA and WA use the same spec, OR is tougher.
To be legal no matter where you go GET THE BRAKES!
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:37 PM   #69
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I don't think as a matter of fact, I know that most states do not require brakes on towed vehicles. It is a stretch that they will hold you liable if some fool cuts in front of you and he gets killed. Where will you find an expert that can prove to a jury's satisfaction that the accident could have been avoided with brakes on your toad. I think everybody is entitled to their opinion and needs to stop scaring rvers into buying stuff they don't want.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:41 PM   #70
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I think the weight limit for trailers without brakes (not breaks) is 3500#, therefore my road is exempt. It weighs 3100#, so quit bugging me.
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