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Old 01-03-2015, 09:56 AM   #1
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Toad Dealer Advice

Question, contacted a Subaru and Hyundai Dealer in Delaware (Maryland Dealer would not reply to contact.
The 2014 Subaru manual trans & 2014 Hyundai manual trans (Must Be Towed On Dolly).
This is not the information I read in 2014 Dingy Guide.
I read that auto trans cannot be towed 4 down.

Sales Rep said they ask Dealer Rep who contacted the Factory Rep. Now is it possible they would misrepresent the truth due to only automatic transmission models on the lot?
I Ask This Question With All Sincerity, I Havenít Purchased A New Vehicle Since 1974. Only new used due to Duty Stations in the Navy were always Forward Deployed Carriers or Over Seas duty.
So do I have to contact the Factory personally? If so who or what Department do I need to get accurate information?
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Old 01-03-2015, 10:12 AM   #2
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Why not just go with a brand you KNOW can be flat towed, instead of messing around with one where there's some question?
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Old 01-03-2015, 10:12 AM   #3
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Most FWD manual transmission cars can be towed flat but you need to verify that yourself by looking in the owners manual - specifically under Recreational Towing.

Subaru AWD manual transmission models can be towed flat or on a trailer. No tow dolly. Again, you can find this information in the owners manual.

Neither Subaru nor Hyundai automatic transmission models can be towed flat. The Hyundai can be towed on a tow dolly, the Subaru can not.
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Old 01-03-2015, 10:18 AM   #4
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A Subaru is only towable 4 down if it's a manual transmission. Since it's all wheel drive, neither auto (older 4-5 gear) variable speed, or manual can be towed on a dolly with two wheels strapped down and two wheels turning. I don't know which year/model of Subaru you where looking at, but here's the part of the 2015 Forester manual, read pgs 9-13 and 9-16.

http://techinfo.subaru.com/proxy/762...5M1503B_15.pdf
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Old 01-03-2015, 11:44 AM   #5
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Thanks Update

Thank You for a rapid response.
I have researched using the "Dingy Towing Guide" (I have downloaded 2009 - 2014) I have also spent days & hours reading as many toad Posts on here "IRV2". .
The guide says and IRV2 folks have posed about what they tow (4 Down). I have read many great posts on here (irv2) about a number of 4 down toads, I like them all.

Now I had stern words with the Sales Manager at Subaru in DE, I said "I have a motorhome, I can travel anywhere in the USA and purchase a vehicle". I was tired of "SHOTGUN" answers. I needed advice to buy what I want, not buy a tow dolly or a trailer.
He contacted an RV Repair shop and contacted me back with a whole new outlook on life and RV Toads, He's also a Blue Ox Distributor!. And yes a Standard Transmission can be towed 4 down, without voiding the warranty. He just does not have any in-stock.

That said, I agree with all the folks on IRV2 who out of frustration stated, "Why don't dealers realize what a Gold Mine Of Customers There Are In The RV Lifestyle"!?!
Again, Thanks

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Old 01-03-2015, 12:11 PM   #6
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On this topic about towing, I would never believe a dealer or shop, especially if they have an interest in selling you a vehicle. Sadly many of the towing guides get it wrong, as do some base plate makers. (If they make a base plate, it must be OK for towing) This type of reasoning is poor logic, especially if you buy a vehicle and then find out it can't be used.

I'd only trust the owner's manual of a vehicle I was interested in buying. As you discovered, a dealer that didn't have a qualified vehicle for towing wasn't interested in helping you.

Many on here would like to use a TDI (diesel) VW as a toad because of their great mileage. VW doesn't approve the 6 speed manual for towing and no one can find out why, thus eliminating a whole car brand from toad use. (My TDI is a 5 speed manual and OKed for towing)
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Old 01-03-2015, 12:24 PM   #7
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Appears some auto manufactures don't believe their manual transmissions circulate trans lube adequately by the tail shaft alone to be towed four down.
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Old 01-03-2015, 12:53 PM   #8
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Thanks Bob for the info and the link to owners manual. I had down loaded a couple of older manuals, had not done the 2015.
I don't plan on buying a auto trans, and that limits a number of makes and or models. That is fine by me. I am trying to buy new, and if I have to change brands I can do that.

Reading about the VW TDI was a shocker to me A 6 speed manual that requires a "Lube Pump"?. I was under the impression that the Manual Transmission gears threw enough lube to do the job. That was why I had incorrectly assumed that a Manual transmission could be towed 4 down.

Thanks again Bob
PS I like the VW
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Old 01-03-2015, 02:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okgc View Post
Appears some auto manufactures don't believe their manual transmissions circulate trans lube adequately by the tail shaft alone to be towed four down.

The simple answer is often the most correct.
The RV market to flat tow is only a small fraction of sales and surely not enough to make it profitable to design a specific transmission that can be flat towed for hundreds or thousands of miles.

It's not just the fluid circulation issue... running gears in reverse (drive forces coming from the wrong end) will also impact gear lifespan, because of how modern gear design allows quieter and smoother running gears.

Best luck
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Old 01-03-2015, 02:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BFlinn181 View Post
Sadly many of the towing guides get it wrong, as do some base plate makers. (If they make a base plate, it must be OK for towing) This type of reasoning is poor logic, especially if you buy a vehicle and then find out it can't be used.
Did that with our '05 Odyssey. Got it in writing on Honda letterhead that it was towable four down before we bought it. Tow bar installed by RoadMaster at their factory as a test fitting unit. Towed it some 300 miles than started seeing internet posts that they had changed their minds. Eventually Honda paid us over $2,200 for the towing equip we bought. Got a KK-460 dolly but have now returned to four down towing.
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Old 01-03-2015, 02:24 PM   #11
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Just to confuse matters even more........................when the Chevy Cruz first came out the owners manual stated is was towable 4 down. After many failed transmissions, GM was kind enough to send a corrected page for the owners manual saying it was not towable. The result, lots of PO owners. GM offered $1500 toward purchase of tow dolly which resulted in law suits and they had to buy back lots of them. Bottom line, you can't even always trust the owners manual. I am on my 2nd Malibu and have towed each around 50K with no problems.
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Old 01-03-2015, 02:24 PM   #12
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I'm not sure a lube pump is needed for the VW 6 speed manual. VW owner's manual just says don't tow it. Some former VW techs say it would tow safely. I don't think it's worth the risk.
Makes it tough buying a toad in the U.S., less than 6.5% of vehicles are manual. My daughter lives in Australia where 71% of new cars are manual. In addition she has a new Subaru Forester diesel that gets 49-51 mpg on fuel that costs less than gasoline instead of at least $.60 more per gallon here. Until this or next model year the Subie diesel only came in manual, they didn't have an automatic that could handle the torque. Because of U.S. emission requirements, Subaru has no plans to bring diesels to U.S.
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