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Old 07-16-2019, 02:48 PM   #1
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Toad, Key off, No Brake lights

Hi All.
I have a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited toad. All my light work when under power and my tow lights and invisabrake work fine. The problem is my brake lights do not come on when the key is off. I have tested the break away system which works but there are no lights, I have pressed the brake pedal, again no lights, turn on the key, everything works. Has anyone else ran into this problem? It would sure be messed up if I had a break away and the toad came to a stop but got rear ended because there no lights.
Thanks
Ron
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Old 07-16-2019, 04:02 PM   #2
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I think this is normal. When towing your jeep, the brake lights work from your coach lights. Break away doesn't work brake lights either.
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Old 07-16-2019, 04:42 PM   #3
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Does your toad have steering wheel lock in off position? If so it needs to be on anyway so you donít burn up the front tires. And yes, I did forget that once. Cost me 2 new front tires.
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Old 07-16-2019, 05:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdedsouth View Post
Hi All.
I have a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited toad. All my light work when under power and my tow lights and invisabrake work fine. The problem is my brake lights do not come on when the key is off. I have tested the break away system which works but there are no lights, I have pressed the brake pedal, again no lights, turn on the key, everything works. Has anyone else ran into this problem? It would sure be messed up if I had a break away and the toad came to a stop but got rear ended because there no lights.
Thanks
Ron

Ron,
I have talked about this for ever on here when it comes to toad lights and setting them up in different fashions. There is a simple test here. Without the coach attached, do your Grand Cherokee brake lights work if the key is out of the ignition or, at least OFF?

Or, do you need the key in the ON position for the brake lights to work?

You see, there are many, many toads out there that are wired in one of those two ways. For instance, we have two toads. One, an '11 GMC Sierra 1500 Extended Cab 4x4 that, the brake lights do NOT ACTIVATE unless the key is I the ignition and, is in the ON position. If the key is OFF, no brake lights.

Our other toad is an '11 Jeep JKUR and, with key in my hand, and I step on the brakes, the Jeeps brake lights light up. So, it just depends on how the manufacturer setup the wiring. There is no hard and fast rule or, no federal regulation for it.
Scott
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Old 07-17-2019, 08:21 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Jthigh View Post
Does your toad have steering wheel lock in off position? If so it needs to be on anyway so you donít burn up the front tires. And yes, I did forget that once. Cost me 2 new front tires.
No steering lock. No other concerns except for brake lights, Thank you.
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Old 07-17-2019, 08:28 AM   #6
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Ron,
I have talked about this for ever on here when it comes to toad lights and setting them up in different fashions. There is a simple test here. Without the coach attached, do your Grand Cherokee brake lights work if the key is out of the ignition or, at least OFF?

Or, do you need the key in the ON position for the brake lights to work?

You see, there are many, many toads out there that are wired in one of those two ways. For instance, we have two toads. One, an '11 GMC Sierra 1500 Extended Cab 4x4 that, the brake lights do NOT ACTIVATE unless the key is I the ignition and, is in the ON position. If the key is OFF, no brake lights.

Our other toad is an '11 Jeep JKUR and, with key in my hand, and I step on the brakes, the Jeeps brake lights light up. So, it just depends on how the manufacturer setup the wiring. There is no hard and fast rule or, no federal regulation for it.
Scott
Scott,
Thank you, yes everything works with the key on, and everything works key off controlled by my coach. I am almost positive I had key off brake lights before I installed the invisabrake system and the tow lights. I am concerned about it for the safety of others in the event of a break away. At least now I know I am not the only one out there. Guess I need to find a 2012 Grand Cherokee on a sales lot and check to see if they work with the key off.
Thanks again
Ron
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Old 07-17-2019, 11:15 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by hdedsouth View Post
Scott,
Thank you, yes everything works with the key on, and everything works key off controlled by my coach. I am almost positive I had key off brake lights before I installed the invisabrake system and the tow lights. I am concerned about it for the safety of others in the event of a break away. At least now I know I am not the only one out there. Guess I need to find a 2012 Grand Cherokee on a sales lot and check to see if they work with the key off.
Thanks again
Ron
Ron,
This is most certainly up to you but, in my opinion, you're over worrying about this specific situation. I mean, do you PLAN on your toad breaking away? No, I don't think so. Worrying about brake light control, if your toad should break away, isn't that big of a deal. To buy a toad, specifically for KEY OFF BRAKE LIGHTs might limit your toad choice. I have never, ever thought about that. If the toad breaks away, well, it breaks away. If a person or persons that might be within any sort of range, of the back of that toad, cannot see that my toad is all of a sudden, ON ITS OWN, and runs into the back of it, well, guess who's fault that is, based on about 99.999999999 of the insurance claims out there for "rear enders"?

I guess this is a choice thing. The only reason I ever worry or, actually think about, is a better choice of words here, about brake lights on our toad is due to me wiring it for toad lighting. I don't want conflicting signals being sent to the same filaments in the toads lights.
Scott
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Old 07-17-2019, 11:32 AM   #8
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Scott said it perfectly. If my car breaks away the breakaway switch will fully activate the brakes and if the person following rear ends it we know who wasnít paying any attention. At least it wouldnít hopefully hit anyone head on.
Drive safely and always expect a safe arrival.

Terry
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Old 07-17-2019, 11:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdedsouth View Post
Hi All.
I have a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited toad. All my light work when under power and my tow lights and invisabrake work fine. The problem is my brake lights do not come on when the key is off. I have tested the break away system which works but there are no lights, I have pressed the brake pedal, again no lights, turn on the key, everything works. Has anyone else ran into this problem? It would sure be messed up if I had a break away and the toad came to a stop but got rear ended because there no lights.
Thanks
Ron
leave the key on! problem solved
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Old 07-17-2019, 06:14 PM   #10
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leave the key on! problem solved

Dead battery = no brakes, I think it is safer with out the lights. Thanks.
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Old 07-17-2019, 06:19 PM   #11
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Ron,
This is most certainly up to you but, in my opinion, you're over worrying about this specific situation. I mean, do you PLAN on your toad breaking away? No, I don't think so. Worrying about brake light control, if your toad should break away, isn't that big of a deal. To buy a toad, specifically for KEY OFF BRAKE LIGHTs might limit your toad choice. I have never, ever thought about that. If the toad breaks away, well, it breaks away. If a person or persons that might be within any sort of range, of the back of that toad, cannot see that my toad is all of a sudden, ON ITS OWN, and runs into the back of it, well, guess who's fault that is, based on about 99.999999999 of the insurance claims out there for "rear enders"?

I guess this is a choice thing. The only reason I ever worry or, actually think about, is a better choice of words here, about brake lights on our toad is due to me wiring it for toad lighting. I don't want conflicting signals being sent to the same filaments in the toads lights.
Scott
Thanks Scott,
I probably am over thinking it, no I have no plans for my toad to ever break away. Just trying to err on the side of caution and I thought the did work before I installed the invisabrake and tow lights. Also with out them working the brake monitor that came with the invisabrake to be installed in the Coach has no purpose.
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Old 07-17-2019, 06:36 PM   #12
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Now you have my attention.

If your brake lights do not work when the key is off and that is the way the manual says to tow, there is another way to wire up your coach "TOAD brake" indicator light. Roadmaster has an auxiliary switch that is designed to be installed on the TOAD brake pedal that grounds the line going to the cab indicator LED. You power the LED with 12 volts from the coach and the brake pedal and switch grounds out the line and the LED lights.

Personally, I would never want to be without that little red LED in the cab.
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Old 07-17-2019, 06:38 PM   #13
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Just a thought. Did your installer install a brake light relay?

Looking through the Invisibrake instructions, one is not required. However, for the Evenbrake, one IS required.

If there is a relay, no brake lights when system is off. This is so the turn signal will still flash when the brakes are engaged.

It should be right under your dash.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:56 AM   #14
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Now you have my attention.

If your brake lights do not work when the key is off and that is the way the manual says to tow, there is another way to wire up your coach "TOAD brake" indicator light. Roadmaster has an auxiliary switch that is designed to be installed on the TOAD brake pedal that grounds the line going to the cab indicator LED. You power the LED with 12 volts from the coach and the brake pedal and switch grounds out the line and the LED lights.

Personally, I would never want to be without that little red LED in the cab.

See I am not totally nuts I understand your logic and should be able to set that up rather easy. Thanks for the idea.
Ron
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