Towing a 2011 RAV4

[byrsch]

We have a 2011 Rav4 front wheel drive and are currently looking at coaches, Remco states to tow the Rav4 I need to install a LP-7 lube pump. I'd appreciate information from anyone that has used their lube pumps for a long time. Do they have any bad effect on the transmission or front wheel drive?

Thanks;
Byron

[lllkrob]

Originally Posted by byrsch

We have a 2011 Rav4 front wheel drive and are currently looking at coaches, Remco states to tow the Rav4 I need to install a LP-7 lube pump. I'd appreciate information from anyone that has used their lube pumps for a long time. Do they have any bad effect on the transmission or front wheel drive?

Thanks;
Byron

You are aware that the installation of the lube pump and towing the Rav 4 in a 4 down configuration will void the warranty on the transmission.

[bearaboo]

I have a 2007 front wheel RAV4. I decided to use a tow dolly with surge brakes after I checked the cost of the lube pump and installation labor. Check the Remco website.
Lube pump $1095
5-6 hours labor to install ($80-100/hour)
Add tow bar, base plate, lights and braking systems. Big bucks $$$$

[gemini5362]

Originally Posted by lllkrob

You are aware that the installation of the lube pump and towing the Rav 4 in a 4 down configuration will void the warranty on the transmission.

I believe that there are federal statutes that cover installation of the Lube Pump and the warranty. Installing it will not automatically void the warranty. If there is transmission damage unless Toyota can prove that the Lube pump was the reason for the damage then it wont invalidate the warranty. Now that being said you can pretty much guarantee that if the Transmission goes out they will blame flat towing for the problem. You will then have to prove that it was something else and probably retain legal council. In reality probably cost more to defend that repairing the damage so you are in reality taking chances with having to pay for repairs to a transmission yourself in which case it would be like not having the warranty. But for instance if a gear broke in the transmission and you can get a garage to testify the gear broke and that heat from being towed had nothing to do with it then you can make them pay for it.

[lllkrob]

Originally Posted by gemini5362

I believe that there are federal statutes that cover installation of the Lube Pump and the warranty. Installing it will not automatically void the warranty. If there is transmission damage unless Toyota can prove that the Lube pump was the reason for the damage then it wont invalidate the warranty. .

Wrong, I worked for Toyota Motor Sales USA for almost 30 years in the parts and service division, the installation of ANY unapproved accessory on the transmission that changes the manufacturer's design in any way automatically voids the warranty. Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act does not apply in such instances. Also, the manufacturer also states that the vehicle is not to be towed with it's drive wheels on the ground under any circumstances. I've been involved with and testified in various legal proceedings, some of a similar nature, that all resulted in Toyota prevailing.

[gemini5362]

Originally Posted by lllkrob

Wrong, I worked for Toyota Motor Sales USA for almost 30 years in the parts and service division, the installation of ANY unapproved accessory on the transmission that changes the manufacturer's design in any way automatically voids the warranty. Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act does not apply in such instances. Also, the manufacturer also states that the vehicle is not to be towed with it's drive wheels on the ground under any circumstances. I've been involved with and testified in various legal proceedings, some of a similar nature, that all resulted in Toyota prevailing.

I have not worked for Toyota However I do represent people in Arbitration which is the forum for litigating this type of issue. The Magnuson- Moss warranty act was passed for exactly this situation. The act provides for putting on accessories. Technically the pump dones not go on the transmission it goes in the transmission lines. The main arguement would be using the vehicle against the manufacturers instructions when you tow it after being told not to.

Arbitrations are a much more relaxed system than a court. I actually agree with you that Toyota would probably prevail but it would really depend on what the damage was. For instance if the modulator failed. I would get a sample of the fluid from the engine and have it checked for heat stress failure. If the fluid did not show it was overheated then Toyota would have to prove that towing the car wheels down was the reason the failure occured. I do not know what kind of cases you testified on or the specifics because I dont have copies of the cases. But I am not WRONG. What generally happens in those cases is that Toyota for instance makes the statement that your pump system was the reason for the damage. The Plaintiff has brought the issue to litigation so the Plaintiff has the burden of proof. Once Toyota shows that you modified the coolant lines you are going to have an uphill climb to prove that the modification was not what caused the problem. As I said earlier I would have an analysis of the fluid. Then I would try to find witnesses that could testify that they have used this system on the same vehicle without an occurance of a similar problem. I would also have testimony to explain that the pump circulated the fluid through the radiator cooling system exactly like what happens when you are driving the car. Provided you get your ducks in a row with the fluid analysis and then if you can find witnesses that towed more miles than your vehicle had. You shift the burden of proof onto toyota to prove that towing was what actually caused the malfunction. So it is not an automatic toyota wins type of thing. Now the reality is that if you have to hire someone to do all of this you can probably buy several transmissions by the time you get done. Which is what I said in my earlier post.

The attorney letter on Remco's website actually outlines the arguement pretty well. I went back to the actual act and refreshed my memory of why you can add a remco pump. If you read the act it would forbid Toyota from failure to honor warranties from the use of non toyota parts or service at other than a toyota dealership. That is also why remco pumps would not automatically void the warranty. The Act also talks about an implied fitness for use. I can give an easy example of that. I just bought a new Buick Enclave I told the dealership that my whole purpose in buying the new enclave was for a towed vehicle behind my motor home. I did not want to get into the situation of having a owners manual saying it was not towable and someone from the dealership being less than honest and saying that it was. I bought a vehicle that the owners manual says it can be towed. Because I made it clear my use for the vehicle there is an implied warranty that it will be usable for a towed vehicle. If someone bought a toyota and told the dealer that is what they were going to use it for and had proof they told the dealer then they would have a much stronger case. Wait and see what happens with Ford in the future. It appears they have came out with a service bulletin that says edge and fusions can not be flat towed. AS of two weeks ago that is not what the dealers are saying. If they try to not cover warranty service because of flat towing they are going to run into problems becasue of the implied warranty of fitness for flat towing. Sorry for the long post but I hate to be flatly told I am wrong.

[byrsch]

When and if I ever find one I will go with a tow dolly, lot easier than worry about lawyers and lawsuits. I retired to get away from stress not create it.

[TXiceman]

Toyota has deep pockets and lots of lawyers on retainer. They can drag out the legal proceedings and cost you a small fortune and never get your car fixed. Best way to avoid the issue is to get a vehicle designed for 4 down towing or tow from a dolly.

Ken

[gemini5362]

I agree with you one hundred percent. It is smarter in the long run to get something that you can tow without any problems. I started to get a 2012 wrangler because it still has the manual style transfer case. I am pretty sure I can put that in neutral and never have any worries about it. Unfortuneatly for me the wrangler did not fit with what I wanted in other ways.

Here is where I think is going to be the biggest problem. I have seen where Ford is saying that edge, fusion and some of those types of vehicles are dighy towable. There are posts where the posters have said that Ford Issued a supplement to the owners manual saying that you cannot wheel down tow a ford anymore starting somewhere in the middle of 2012. I was looking at these very cars two weeks ago and the dealer was telling me that they were absolutely wheels down towable. I was in Ford Lots with two different dealerships and got the same story. I read a post today that chevrolet Cruze used to be considered wheels down towable. When chevrolet had too many transmission replacements they changed the manual. I just bought a new buick enclave which is supposed to be wheels down towable. I am hoping I dont get caught in the same problem.

I dont want to use a tow dolly or trailer because of the inconvenience. If you want to back up or turn around you have to take the car off of the trailer/dolly. Unhook the trailer/ dolly from your motorhome. Hook the trailer /dolly up to your car to move it then you can move your MH
too much trouble for me