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05-22-2013, 02:21 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 776
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Towing Laws, totally confused
We are planning to tow our 86 Suzuki Samurai behind our 36' Class A from Arizona to California through Nevada next week.
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Some knowledgable people have said no problem, others said I must have an assisted braking device like Brake Buddy. I can't get a straight authoritative answer, even a law enforcement buddy wasn't 100% certain.
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My RV has one side of the system, the car doesn't. I can't afford the $1200 this week to buy it, but would rather not leave the toad behind if I can avoid it.
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How do you get a straight answer on this kind of stuff? Why do I even need it? It's not like the toad is going to be pushing my 23,000lb RV.
__________________
Joseph and Sandy
Arizona Sunbirds
(Snowbirds in Reverse)
Winnebago Chieftain / Ford Hybrid Toad
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05-22-2013, 02:37 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Merritt, BC
Posts: 3,753
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You don't NEED one in AZ or CA, but you definitely do in NV.
Toad Brake Requirements
While I do have one for the slight additional stopping assistance, my main reason is to stop the toad in the event of a breakaway occurrence.
__________________
Bob, Sherron & Kinsey (RIP 2013-2022)
2017 Tiffin Phaeton 40QBH
2014 Jeep Cherokee Limited
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05-22-2013, 02:39 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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It varies from state to state, there is no one law (other than the laws of
physics) that covers every instance in every state.
Since you will have to comply with every states laws that you're in at the time and the laws of physics I have add'l braking on our towed. There is no reciprocity on equipment laws like there is for licenses.
Have you ever heard anyone say: "Gee, I wish I didn't have so much braking?" But you do see reports of people being killed when the vehicle behind them can't stop in time.
The chart linked to above is the first one I've ever seen that got WA, OR and CA right!
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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05-22-2013, 02:54 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 6,401
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This is what the CA DMV site says:
In California, brakes are required on any trailer coach or camp trailer having a gross weight of 1500 lbs. or more.
I have been told by 3 CHP officers that they consider a towed vehicle as a trailer. You may or may not receive a citation in CA and you may or may not beat it in court.
__________________
Wayne & Roberta
08 Winnebago Destination 39W Gas UFO Workhorse Chassis......It's really weird being the same age as old people. I thought getting old would take much longer.
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05-22-2013, 03:00 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UFO Pilot
I have been told by 3 CHP officers that they consider a towed vehicle as a trailer.
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Which may or may not be right. In WA if you're towing a motorized vehicle you rig becomes a "combination" vehicle and follows different rules, OR and CA are supposed to be the same, but the officers interpretation might not be.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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05-22-2013, 03:05 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tampa Area (sometimes!)
Posts: 620
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Some points to ponder:
You could pay a bunch of tickets for the cost of a braking system.
A tiny, lightweight Suzuki Samurai behind any 36' coach is NOT going to be a significant influence on your ability to stop your rig in any weather.
Every braking system, even the best integrated, requires some work every time you connect or disconnect your toad.
There is always the risk of your braking system braking your toad and damaging either the vehicle or ruining the tires.
I find it highly, and I do mean highly unlikely that you will ever get stopped for a safety check by a law enforcement officer. The status of your equipment might become an issue if you get stopped for some other reason, or are in an accident, but otherwise I would consider this risk very minor.
Having said all that, I use the Roadmaster Brakemaster on my rig. But, I'm towing a 4000 lb car.
__________________
Randy and Tina & fur baby - Cinnamon
2020 Tiffin Wayfarer RW
Mercedes Benz 2019 Sprinter Chassis
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05-22-2013, 03:07 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 6,401
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It would be interesting to see if anyone has ever been cited in CA for towing a car without auxiliary brakes, and if they fought it. I know any traffic citation in CA is hard to beat in court.
__________________
Wayne & Roberta
08 Winnebago Destination 39W Gas UFO Workhorse Chassis......It's really weird being the same age as old people. I thought getting old would take much longer.
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05-22-2013, 03:08 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobGed
You don't NEED one in AZ or CA, but you definitely do in NV.
Toad Brake Requirements
While I do have one for the slight additional stopping assistance, my main reason is to stop the toad in the event of a breakaway occurrence.
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Thanks, you just made my trip next week so much more enjoyable. We just need to reroute to avoid Nevada.
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Of course I agree that having the assisted brake system is extremely desirable, but being a newbie I wasn't aware of it until this week. It's just not it the budget this week, but we will certainly be equipped with it before the next trip in July.
__________________
Joseph and Sandy
Arizona Sunbirds
(Snowbirds in Reverse)
Winnebago Chieftain / Ford Hybrid Toad
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05-22-2013, 03:10 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 6,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f14av8r
Every braking system, even the best integrated, requires some work every time you connect or disconnect your toad.
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I plug in my lights and am ready to go. The only "extra work" is connecting the brake away cable and I wouldn't tow with out a brake away device.
__________________
Wayne & Roberta
08 Winnebago Destination 39W Gas UFO Workhorse Chassis......It's really weird being the same age as old people. I thought getting old would take much longer.
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05-22-2013, 03:28 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UFO Pilot
This is what the CA DMV site says:
In California, brakes are required on any trailer coach or camp trailer having a gross weight of 1500 lbs. or more.
I have been told by 3 CHP officers that they consider a towed vehicle as a trailer. You may or may not receive a citation in CA and you may or may not beat it in court.
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Amazing, since the exception for towing motor vehicles is clearly explained in the California statute copied below. As a professional driver for several decades I can assure you of one thing with absolute certainty, law enforcement officers, even those speaking as official spokesman in training classes, are VERY frequently wrong about the law.
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This exception is clearly spelled out in the California law. (See C-3 below);
"Braking System: Towing Vehicles
26458. (a) The braking system on every motor vehicle used to tow another vehicle shall be so arranged that one control on the towing vehicle shall, when applied, operate all the service brakes on the power unit and combination of vehicles when either or both of the following conditions exist:
(1) The towing vehicle is required to be equipped with power brakes.
(2) The towed vehicle is required to be equipped with brakes and is equipped with power brakes.
(b) Subdivision (a) shall not be construed to prohibit motor vehicles from being equipped with an additional control to be used to operate the brakes on the trailer or trailers.
(c) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following combinations of vehicles, if the combination of vehicles meets the stopping distance requirements of Section 26454:
(1) Vehicles engaged in driveaway-towaway operations.
(2) Disabled vehicles, while being towed.
(3) Towed motor vehicles.
(4) Trailers equipped with inertially controlled brakes which are designed to be applied automatically upon breakaway from the towing vehicle and which are capable of stopping and holding the trailer stationary for not less than 15 minutes."
__________________
Joseph and Sandy
Arizona Sunbirds
(Snowbirds in Reverse)
Winnebago Chieftain / Ford Hybrid Toad
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05-22-2013, 03:42 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raining Star
Amazing, since the exception for towing motor vehicles is clearly explained in the California statute copied below. As a professional driver for several decades I can assure you of one thing with absolute certainty, law enforcement officers, even those speaking as official spokesman in training classes, are VERY frequently wrong about the law.
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This exception is clearly spelled out in the California law. (See C-3 below);
"Braking System: Towing Vehicles
26458. (a) The braking system on every motor vehicle used to tow another vehicle shall be so arranged that one control on the towing vehicle shall, when applied, operate all the service brakes on the power unit and combination of vehicles when either or both of the following conditions exist:
(1) The towing vehicle is required to be equipped with power brakes.
(2) The towed vehicle is required to be equipped with brakes and is equipped with power brakes.
(b) Subdivision (a) shall not be construed to prohibit motor vehicles from being equipped with an additional control to be used to operate the brakes on the trailer or trailers.
(c) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following combinations of vehicles, if the combination of vehicles meets the stopping distance requirements of Section 26454:
(1) Vehicles engaged in driveaway-towaway operations.
(2) Disabled vehicles, while being towed.
(3) Towed motor vehicles.
(4) Trailers equipped with inertially controlled brakes which are designed to be applied automatically upon breakaway from the towing vehicle and which are capable of stopping and holding the trailer stationary for not less than 15 minutes."
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Thanks for the backup for what I posted earlier! I didn't have the actual cites but I had researched it some time ago.
Here is what Spartan says about braking:0
Quote:
Spartan owner manual Doc # OM-011101-02-G -54
On page 1-4 it states:
"The chassis braking system is rated for the operation at the GVWR - NOT the GCWR. Separate functional brake systems should be used for safe control of towed vehicles or trailers. It is important for you to understand if there are any government (federal, state, local or other) regulations that apply to weight restrictions for the areas you plan to travel. Government restrictions could affect the size and weight of the towed item and whether an auxiliary brake system is required"
Therefore what I originally stated is correct and I stand by it even though Spartan verbaly gave me different info yesterday. It is also possible that Spartan has changed their new documentation as this is an '02 copy I have.
Deen
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__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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05-22-2013, 03:55 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D
Thanks for the backup for what I posted earlier! I didn't have the actual cites but I had researched it some time ago.
Here is what Spartan says about braking:0
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Even under the best of circumstances laws often conflict and jurisdictions overlap. Sometimes by complying with law a, we violate law b.
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I was a union rep for many years and I've seen a couple of times were just being in compliance isn't enough. Nothing about driving a large vehicle across state lines is a certainty where the law is concerned, other than the law of physics.
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Hence budget realities dictate simply complying with the letter of the law this trip, reason dictates upgrading to assisted braking next trip.
__________________
Joseph and Sandy
Arizona Sunbirds
(Snowbirds in Reverse)
Winnebago Chieftain / Ford Hybrid Toad
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05-22-2013, 04:18 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Coastal Campers
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marathon, Florida
Posts: 2,909
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We towed a "utility" trailer with two Harleys inside that technically in our state did not need brakes. It was rated for 995lbs. Why? Because anything 1000 and over was required to have brakes. Never had a problem or had any idea we may be over. Let's see, two 600lb Harleys + trailer. No problem at 995
Now we drag a Geo Tracker, very similar to your Samurai and have a Ready Brake. Not so much because I am worried about towing it but to be legal. The Ready Stop is reassuring though.
__________________
Mark & Nancy
2004 Winnebago Vectra 40KD
Shep dog, R.I.P. Kenzie dog Toad 2015 Jeep Wrangler Willys Wheeler
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