Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Toads and Motorhome Related Towing
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-22-2013, 03:21 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Raining Star's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 736
Towing Laws, totally confused

We are planning to tow our 86 Suzuki Samurai behind our 36' Class A from Arizona to California through Nevada next week.
-
Some knowledgable people have said no problem, others said I must have an assisted braking device like Brake Buddy. I can't get a straight authoritative answer, even a law enforcement buddy wasn't 100% certain.
-
My RV has one side of the system, the car doesn't. I can't afford the $1200 this week to buy it, but would rather not leave the toad behind if I can avoid it.
-
How do you get a straight answer on this kind of stuff? Why do I even need it? It's not like the toad is going to be pushing my 23,000lb RV.
__________________

__________________
Joseph and Sandy
Arizona Sunbirds

(Snowbirds in Reverse)
Winnebago Chieftain / Ford Hybrid Toad
Raining Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-22-2013, 03:37 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
BobGed's Avatar
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 1,942
You don't NEED one in AZ or CA, but you definitely do in NV.
Toad Brake Requirements

While I do have one for the slight additional stopping assistance, my main reason is to stop the toad in the event of a breakaway occurrence.
__________________

__________________
Bob, Sherron & Kinsey (Goldendoodle)
2017 Tiffin Phaeton 40QBH
2014 Jeep Cherokee Limited
BobGed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 03:39 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Mr_D's Avatar
 
Solo Rvers Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 28,385
It varies from state to state, there is no one law (other than the laws of
physics) that covers every instance in every state.

Since you will have to comply with every states laws that you're in at the time and the laws of physics I have add'l braking on our towed. There is no reciprocity on equipment laws like there is for licenses.

Have you ever heard anyone say: "Gee, I wish I didn't have so much braking?" But you do see reports of people being killed when the vehicle behind them can't stop in time.

The chart linked to above is the first one I've ever seen that got WA, OR and CA right!
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA, SKP
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '14 CR-V
Mr_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 03:54 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
UFO Pilot's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 4,607
This is what the CA DMV site says:
In California, brakes are required on any trailer coach or camp trailer having a gross weight of 1500 lbs. or more.

I have been told by 3 CHP officers that they consider a towed vehicle as a trailer. You may or may not receive a citation in CA and you may or may not beat it in court.
__________________
Wayne & Roberta and Maggie the Miracle Dog
08 Winnebago Destination 39W Gas UFO Workhorse Chassis
Making the Journey in our Destination

UFO Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 04:00 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Mr_D's Avatar
 
Solo Rvers Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 28,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFO Pilot View Post
I have been told by 3 CHP officers that they consider a towed vehicle as a trailer.
Which may or may not be right. In WA if you're towing a motorized vehicle you rig becomes a "combination" vehicle and follows different rules, OR and CA are supposed to be the same, but the officers interpretation might not be.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA, SKP
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '14 CR-V
Mr_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 04:05 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
f14av8r's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tampa Area (sometimes!)
Posts: 390
Some points to ponder:

You could pay a bunch of tickets for the cost of a braking system.

A tiny, lightweight Suzuki Samurai behind any 36' coach is NOT going to be a significant influence on your ability to stop your rig in any weather.

Every braking system, even the best integrated, requires some work every time you connect or disconnect your toad.

There is always the risk of your braking system braking your toad and damaging either the vehicle or ruining the tires.

I find it highly, and I do mean highly unlikely that you will ever get stopped for a safety check by a law enforcement officer. The status of your equipment might become an issue if you get stopped for some other reason, or are in an accident, but otherwise I would consider this risk very minor.

Having said all that, I use the Roadmaster Brakemaster on my rig. But, I'm towing a 4000 lb car.
__________________
Randy and Tina & pups: Cinnamon, Cookie & Coco
2010 Winnebago Journey 34Y
Freightliner / Cummins 340hp ISB
f14av8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 04:07 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
UFO Pilot's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 4,607
It would be interesting to see if anyone has ever been cited in CA for towing a car without auxiliary brakes, and if they fought it. I know any traffic citation in CA is hard to beat in court.
__________________
Wayne & Roberta and Maggie the Miracle Dog
08 Winnebago Destination 39W Gas UFO Workhorse Chassis
Making the Journey in our Destination

UFO Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 04:08 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Raining Star's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 736
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobGed View Post
You don't NEED one in AZ or CA, but you definitely do in NV.
Toad Brake Requirements

While I do have one for the slight additional stopping assistance, my main reason is to stop the toad in the event of a breakaway occurrence.
Thanks, you just made my trip next week so much more enjoyable. We just need to reroute to avoid Nevada.
-
Of course I agree that having the assisted brake system is extremely desirable, but being a newbie I wasn't aware of it until this week. It's just not it the budget this week, but we will certainly be equipped with it before the next trip in July.
__________________
Joseph and Sandy
Arizona Sunbirds

(Snowbirds in Reverse)
Winnebago Chieftain / Ford Hybrid Toad
Raining Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 04:10 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
UFO Pilot's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Posts: 4,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by f14av8r View Post

Every braking system, even the best integrated, requires some work every time you connect or disconnect your toad.
I plug in my lights and am ready to go. The only "extra work" is connecting the brake away cable and I wouldn't tow with out a brake away device.
__________________
Wayne & Roberta and Maggie the Miracle Dog
08 Winnebago Destination 39W Gas UFO Workhorse Chassis
Making the Journey in our Destination

UFO Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 04:28 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Raining Star's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 736
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFO Pilot View Post
This is what the CA DMV site says:
In California, brakes are required on any trailer coach or camp trailer having a gross weight of 1500 lbs. or more.

I have been told by 3 CHP officers that they consider a towed vehicle as a trailer. You may or may not receive a citation in CA and you may or may not beat it in court.
Amazing, since the exception for towing motor vehicles is clearly explained in the California statute copied below. As a professional driver for several decades I can assure you of one thing with absolute certainty, law enforcement officers, even those speaking as official spokesman in training classes, are VERY frequently wrong about the law.
-
This exception is clearly spelled out in the California law. (See C-3 below);

"Braking System: Towing Vehicles

26458. (a) The braking system on every motor vehicle used to tow another vehicle shall be so arranged that one control on the towing vehicle shall, when applied, operate all the service brakes on the power unit and combination of vehicles when either or both of the following conditions exist:

(1) The towing vehicle is required to be equipped with power brakes.

(2) The towed vehicle is required to be equipped with brakes and is equipped with power brakes.

(b) Subdivision (a) shall not be construed to prohibit motor vehicles from being equipped with an additional control to be used to operate the brakes on the trailer or trailers.

(c) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following combinations of vehicles, if the combination of vehicles meets the stopping distance requirements of Section 26454:

(1) Vehicles engaged in driveaway-towaway operations.

(2) Disabled vehicles, while being towed.

(3) Towed motor vehicles.

(4) Trailers equipped with inertially controlled brakes which are designed to be applied automatically upon breakaway from the towing vehicle and which are capable of stopping and holding the trailer stationary for not less than 15 minutes."
__________________
Joseph and Sandy
Arizona Sunbirds

(Snowbirds in Reverse)
Winnebago Chieftain / Ford Hybrid Toad
Raining Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 04:31 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
CampDaven's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Fulltime, USA
Posts: 14,446
Blog Entries: 1
You may want to review this. It explains the risks and physics of towed vehicle braking.

The Physics of Towed-Vehicle Braking
__________________
Dave and Nola, RVM1
The Journey is Our Destination!

http://davenola.blogspot.com/
CampDaven is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 04:42 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Mr_D's Avatar
 
Solo Rvers Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 28,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raining Star View Post
Amazing, since the exception for towing motor vehicles is clearly explained in the California statute copied below. As a professional driver for several decades I can assure you of one thing with absolute certainty, law enforcement officers, even those speaking as official spokesman in training classes, are VERY frequently wrong about the law.
-
This exception is clearly spelled out in the California law. (See C-3 below);

"Braking System: Towing Vehicles

26458. (a) The braking system on every motor vehicle used to tow another vehicle shall be so arranged that one control on the towing vehicle shall, when applied, operate all the service brakes on the power unit and combination of vehicles when either or both of the following conditions exist:

(1) The towing vehicle is required to be equipped with power brakes.

(2) The towed vehicle is required to be equipped with brakes and is equipped with power brakes.

(b) Subdivision (a) shall not be construed to prohibit motor vehicles from being equipped with an additional control to be used to operate the brakes on the trailer or trailers.

(c) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following combinations of vehicles, if the combination of vehicles meets the stopping distance requirements of Section 26454:

(1) Vehicles engaged in driveaway-towaway operations.

(2) Disabled vehicles, while being towed.

(3) Towed motor vehicles.

(4) Trailers equipped with inertially controlled brakes which are designed to be applied automatically upon breakaway from the towing vehicle and which are capable of stopping and holding the trailer stationary for not less than 15 minutes."
Thanks for the backup for what I posted earlier! I didn't have the actual cites but I had researched it some time ago.

Here is what Spartan says about braking:0
Quote:
Spartan owner manual Doc # OM-011101-02-G -54
On page 1-4 it states:
"The chassis braking system is rated for the operation at the GVWR - NOT the GCWR. Separate functional brake systems should be used for safe control of towed vehicles or trailers. It is important for you to understand if there are any government (federal, state, local or other) regulations that apply to weight restrictions for the areas you plan to travel. Government restrictions could affect the size and weight of the towed item and whether an auxiliary brake system is required"

Therefore what I originally stated is correct and I stand by it even though Spartan verbaly gave me different info yesterday. It is also possible that Spartan has changed their new documentation as this is an '02 copy I have.

Deen
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA, SKP
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '14 CR-V
Mr_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 04:55 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Raining Star's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D View Post
Thanks for the backup for what I posted earlier! I didn't have the actual cites but I had researched it some time ago.

Here is what Spartan says about braking:0
Even under the best of circumstances laws often conflict and jurisdictions overlap. Sometimes by complying with law a, we violate law b.
-
I was a union rep for many years and I've seen a couple of times were just being in compliance isn't enough. Nothing about driving a large vehicle across state lines is a certainty where the law is concerned, other than the law of physics.
-
Hence budget realities dictate simply complying with the letter of the law this trip, reason dictates upgrading to assisted braking next trip.
__________________
Joseph and Sandy
Arizona Sunbirds

(Snowbirds in Reverse)
Winnebago Chieftain / Ford Hybrid Toad
Raining Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2013, 05:18 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
HD4Mark's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Coastal Campers
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Marathon, Florida
Posts: 2,894
We towed a "utility" trailer with two Harleys inside that technically in our state did not need brakes. It was rated for 995lbs. Why? Because anything 1000 and over was required to have brakes. Never had a problem or had any idea we may be over. Let's see, two 600lb Harleys + trailer. No problem at 995

Now we drag a Geo Tracker, very similar to your Samurai and have a Ready Brake. Not so much because I am worried about towing it but to be legal. The Ready Stop is reassuring though.
__________________

__________________
Mark & Nancy
2004 Winnebago Vectra 40KD
Shep dog, R.I.P. Kenzie dog Toad 2015 Jeep Wrangler Willys Wheeler
HD4Mark is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.