Trailer Receptacle Problems

[Ira Colby]

I have a 2004 Mountain Aire Diesel 4301. We are preparing to depart on a trip and I found that I have no left hand directional at the trailer receptacle at the back of the coach. I have disassembled the receptacle to check connections and everything is in order. The coach has seperate directional lights and stop lights so I'm guessing there is a converter somewhere to change to a combination stop light directional light for the trailer. All other directional lights on the coach work properly. I have searched the coach completely and haven't been able to locate a fuse box or controller. The front control and fuse panel in the first comparment on the drivers side has the flasher relays and fuses for the coach but nothing for the trailer connection. I have called Newmar twice and Sparten once. Sparten claims my model does not have any seperate fuse panel for the trailer lights. Newmar told me the controller was in the same compartment that houses power cable, battery disconnect relay etc. There is no controller of any type in this space that I can find. I traced the wires from the receptacle to where they diappear up in the frame infront of the engine but they become untracable after that. The wiring running to the trailer receptical is much heavier gauge than the other wires going to the lights so I can't believe they are spliced together somewhere without some kind of connection point. I am in hopes that one of you might have experienced a similar problem and offer some assistance. If I can't find another solution I'm going to install a controller and wire it into the coach lighting at the rear of the coach so I'll have lights for the tow dolly and toad.

[Bigd9]

This is going to be a shot in the dark since I have a Fleetwood on a Freightliner frame.

Freightliner used a relay and fuse setup to control the trailer plug. I found mine by turning on the blinkers and then walking around the coach until I heard a ticking sound. Opening a compartment I found a small box chock full of relays and breakers. Maybe you could do this? Since you don't have left hand blinkers, turn on the right hand and tune in for a noise.

Good luck

[hal1phx]

We're on a 03 Spartan ... and have the fuses for the trailer lights located in the under the driver compartment ... labeled right turn/stop and left turn/stop ... these are separate from the coach lights.
Shoot me a PM with your email address and I'll send you the electrical drawings that I have ... 03 & 04 were very similar ....

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by Ira Colby

I have a 2004 Mountain Aire Diesel 4301. We are preparing to depart on a trip and I found that I have no left hand directional at the trailer receptacle at the back of the coach. I have disassembled the receptacle to check connections and everything is in order. The coach has seperate directional lights and stop lights so I'm guessing there is a converter somewhere to change to a combination stop light directional light for the trailer. All other directional lights on the coach work properly. I have searched the coach completely and haven't been able to locate a fuse box or controller. The front control and fuse panel in the first comparment on the drivers side has the flasher relays and fuses for the coach but nothing for the trailer connection. I have called Newmar twice and Sparten once. Sparten claims my model does not have any seperate fuse panel for the trailer lights. Newmar told me the controller was in the same compartment that houses power cable, battery disconnect relay etc. There is no controller of any type in this space that I can find. I traced the wires from the receptacle to where they diappear up in the frame infront of the engine but they become untracable after that. The wiring running to the trailer receptical is much heavier gauge than the other wires going to the lights so I can't believe they are spliced together somewhere without some kind of connection point. I am in hopes that one of you might have experienced a similar problem and offer some assistance. If I can't find another solution I'm going to install a controller and wire it into the coach lighting at the rear of the coach so I'll have lights for the tow dolly and toad.

Ira,
Well, you've got some of it figured out. Yes, if you have AMBER turn signal lenses on the rear of the coach, then not only do you have separate turn signals from your brake lights but, you DO have what's called a "3 wire to 2 wire" tail light converter, located somewhere, in that harness, prior to the 7-pin trailer receptacle.

Now, you don't say what chassis you have but, it has been stated that Freightliner utilizes a totally separate set of fuses for it's trailer plug. On our coach, also an '04, Itasca Horizon 36GD with the C-7 330HP CAT, the fuses for that trailer plug are located at the very left rear corner of the coach, under the rear louvered panel, that houses the dash air conditioning condenser.

I have to remove a couple of screws from the side and, two from the bottom, to hinge that louvered panel up, just like a compartment door. I prop it open and there are my fuses for that trailer plug.

But, just where they are on your coach, remains to be seen. If your chassis is a Freightliner, and, it's like our '04 chassis, it's quite possible that your trailer plug fuses are in the same area or, close to that area. I'm assuming you don't have your dash air condenser in the same place as ours so, things will be different.

Now, if you don't have a Freightliner Chassis, I will assume that, the chassis maker or, even maybe Newmar itself, does the same thing in establishing a separate set of fuses for the trailer plug and of course, utilizing the 3 wire to 2 wire tail light converter so that, you have a standard wiring setup, in that 7-pin plug.

In some of the Winnebago Freightliner chassis that are close to my year or model, the separate fuses for that trailer plug are in the shore power compartment, behind a removable panel. You can almost see the cover for the fuse box but, removing the panel reveals the entire box. Now, again, is yours like this, that remains to be seen. Good luck and, please post what you find so that others may learn.
Scott

[Ira Colby]

We are on a Spartan chassis with a tag axle. Spartan told me there is no seperate fuse panel for my chassis. However when I spoke to them I didn't think about the need for a converter from3 wire to 2 wire do I failed to ask about that specifically. In a second call I made to Newmar I was told ithe converter is in the compartment that houses my power cable, relays etc. I didn't think they were correct as I had spent sometime in there replacing a battery disconnect relay. I looked that compartment over again and found no converter.

I think I will place another call to Spartan with more specific questions now I've exhausted most other options.

Thank you all for your thoughts and ideas I will be checking all the places suggested. These problems are tough to solve but it provides an opportunity to learn the whereabouts of every system in the coach.

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Ira-

I found this link to a wiring diagram:

http://www.spartanchassis.com/cps/lo...8514623750.pdf

on this iRV2 thread:

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/newm...de-165171.html

Only you can confirm if it applies to your coach (I don't have any Newmar experience). If it does apply, you may want to look at pages 68 and 69 of the PDF document. On page 68 (lower right of drawing number 0125-GG9-038), it shows the coach and the trailer receptacle left-hand turn signal wires are spliced at splice SPL-17. Ditto for right-hand turn at SPL-18. Now, that's a lot of "ifs," but that would say there is no 3-wire to 2-wire converter for the trailer lights.

Which doesn't solve the problem, I know. When coach blinks, the trailer should blink

Mark

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by l1v3fr33ord1

Ira-

I found this link to a wiring diagram:

http://www.spartanchassis.com/cps/lo...8514623750.pdf

on this iRV2 thread:

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/newm...de-165171.html

Only you can confirm if it applies to your coach (I don't have any Newmar experience). If it does apply, you may want to look at pages 68 and 69 of the PDF document. On page 68 (lower right of drawing number 0125-GG9-038), it shows the coach and the trailer receptacle left-hand turn signal wires are spliced at splice SPL-17. Ditto for right-hand turn at SPL-18. Now, that's a lot of "ifs," but that would say there is no 3-wire to 2-wire converter for the trailer lights.

Which doesn't solve the problem, I know. When coach blinks, the trailer should blink

Mark

Mark,
If you would Sir, help me out here. I'm also trying to help the OP here find his problem. But, when I went to your drawing links, I'm having a problem finding the drawing number you linked for, the trailer plug. You say it's "
0125-GG9-038", correct? Well, I can find a drawing number 011-GG9-038 but, no 125.

And, even on the that one I found, it's a generator wiring plan. I scrolled down to, 0111-GG9-040 and I find the "HLP/TURN/MARKER/DRLM PA 1"

if I scroll down to: the same drawing number but, page 2, I get more detailed info.

Now, here's the deal. If the OP has separate turn signals from brake lights, and the turn signal lenses are AMBER, then either Spartan has found a way to combine RED brake lights and AMBER turn signals at the pin on the trailer plug or, I'm just not seeing the 3-wire to 2-wire converter.

But, if the OP has separate RED turn signals from the RED brake lights, even then there must be some form of combiner, to allow the "RT/brake and LT/Brake inside the trailer plug. Simply because, there must be a way of separating the turn signals on the coach from the brake lights so that either function does not interfere with the other. I hope I'm explaining things correctly here.

I've wired many, many toads and coaches that have had separate turn signals and brake lights and, each and every time, I've had to use either a 3 wire to 2 wire or, the opposite, a 2 wire to 3 wire tail light converter, depending what kind of situation I'm up against at the time.

Can you point me to the : 125-GG9-038 drawing please?
Scott

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Scott-

Sorry- I picked off the incorrect link for the Mountain Aire from that iRV2 thread. Here's the correct one:

http://www.spartanchassis.com/cps/lo...5364670561.pdf

There are 108 pages in that PDF document. The sheet of interest is on page 68.

I was expecting a converter, too. But here's the problem when responding to these posts: I want to be helpful, but I also don't want to delay. In this case, in his first post Ira said he would add a converter in order to get underway soon. So, I poked around until I found what may be the correct drawing package, found the pertinent pages BUT I haven't yet analyzed the schematics to see how they combined the turn signals for the trailer hitch without an obvious converter. In the interest of speed, you see, and trying to reduce the need for Ira to augment his wiring when it might not be needed.

I'm grateful for your eyes, and Ira's and anyone else's following this thread, analyzing the drawing... assuming that it's valid for Ira's coach.

Mark

[l1v3fr33ord1]

See sheet 69. It show separate fuses and relays for turn and stop/turn signals.

The coach lights get a signal from both relays, the trailer connector from just the stop/turn relay. Thus, it's possible (by the diagram) that the coach left-turn light works, but not the trailer's.

See sheet 99. The third row down, fourth over (far right) is the fuse and relay position for the stop/turn lights.

Ira- Can you find that "Front PDC Assembly" and check the fuse marked in the attached picture?

Mark

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Ira-

I was thinking about the diagrams as I went down the road on the way to dinner (dangerous for other drivers, and perhaps not helpful for anyone else).

Here are some tests you can run before you track down the fuse:

1) When you put on the right turn signal, does the right rear coach "brake" light blink, too?

2) When you put on the left turn signal, does only the left rear coach "turn" light blink?

3) When someone steps on the brake pedal, does only the right rear coach "brake" light come on (that is, the left rear coach "brake" light doesn't light)?

4) When you put on the hazard lights, does the left rear coach "brake" light not blink, but the other three lights (left rear turn, right rear turn, right rear "brake") do blink?

On the coach, the rear turn and brake lights are separate. Both are fed from the turn signal switch in the steering column, using different sets of contacts. Both run through their own fuses and relays.

Here's where it gets interesting. We know that the trailer turn/stop wires and coach "stop" wires are spliced together. What that means to me is that the coach's left or right "brake" light should blink when the left or right (respectively) turn signal is activated. The effect: Coach turn and "brake" lights blinking together. Step on the brake, and the brake light stays lit, while the turn signal (usually above it in the housing) continues to blink.

Maybe it's just time for me to go to sleep. Some would claim that the brain went off-line a while ago. ;-)

Mark

[Ira Colby]

Mark thanks for all the good input. I'm visiting my daughter in beautiful Vemont this weekend so I'm away from my motorhome. I'll check out all this things you noted when I get back on Monday and take a look at the link you sent.

Ira

[FIRE UP]

Mark,
Hey, thanks for getting back to me on the correct diagrams. I always think I'm a bone head 'cause I can't find something when I was directed to. Now, as for his wiring, if Spartan, or his coach maker has found an alternative way of combining a turn and brake signal before the trailer plug, WITHOUT A CONVERTER, that's serious news to me.

I'm not into relays. I basically know how they work but, if, according to those drawings, somehow they're used in combining a turn and brake signal just prior to the trailer plug, I can't even fathom how all that works. I'm just used to using the old converters. And, I think many coach makers that install AMBER turn signals on certain models of their line-up, also use them because it's a cheap, ultra simple way of getting the job done prior to the trailer plug.
Scott

[Ira Colby]

I would like to thank Mark and Scott for the information they provided. The diagram you provided of the fuse panel helped me isolate the problem. I felt a bit stupid that I spent as much time as I did trying to isolate the problem only to find that it was only a fuse. I had checked the directional light fuses but not the ones marked L T/STP figuring that was for stop lights. It didn't dawn on me that the T probably was for trailer. Now that's fixed we are ready to head out in couple of weeks for the FMCA rally in Ashville NC. We have been camping for years but earlier this year we started fulltiming and can't wait to get on the road.

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Ira-

Hooray!

Enjoy your trip to Asheville. We'll be stuck here in your home state with the leaf-peepers.

Mark

P.S.- I'm thinking that the "T" stands for "Turn," as in "Left Turn/Stop." The diagrams refer to the circuits as "Left Stop/Turn"and "Right Stop/Turn," but that's not how they marked the fuse block. Go figure.