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Old 08-29-2019, 06:59 PM   #1
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12V House Power in new to me 93 Tioga (Ford)

1993 26' Tioga sat for many years (>10), PO passed away so no help there. Starter and house battery replaced this week. I am tracing down a no start issue probably FP or FP power (I am on that issue) however... My Bigger concern is 12V House power NG, so the monitor panel is dead, no lights, no water pump, no action to gen start, etc. No power at power panel. I was looking for a disconnect switch but none are found. This RV has factory aux power switch for using house battery to start RV. Previously I had a Jamboree and all these functions worked so never paid much mind. Lacking a decent wiring diagram I am stuck in trace mode with the meter, don't get me wrong I can do that but if you have some insight where to look it may shorten my struggle. Relay under the hood, hidden disconnec, etc.? Any help will be much appreciated, thanks.
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Old 08-31-2019, 03:41 PM   #2
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Battery disconnect switch or blown inline fuse. Any 12 volt power when the coach is plugged in?
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Old 09-01-2019, 08:36 AM   #3
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Thanks - I can't find a disconnect for the coach power from the battery. A diagram or schematic of a 90s Tioga Coach would be really handy if someone has that in PDF, or a link to find that. Frankly any information on the auxiliary battery start electrics that would be great, I see two solenoids on the passenger side near radiator and large cables that I suspect are part of that. - On the no start still no fuel pump action, FP fuse and relay look okay, inertia switch not popped - ready to hot wire to FP + lead to see if it is the pump itself before dropping the tank.
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:59 PM   #4
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seems like you have 2 issues, coach power and RV chassis power... Related maybe,, setting a long time, crappy grounds...

does chassis crank over , click or dash light up ??

in the rv coach stsem in the back, there is or should be a switch to trun on that battery... preetty simple, the relays work it..

If you plug in the RV to 110V the converter should power up the 12V,,, this would take afew things out of equation..

Focus on one stytem at a time,

ask fleetwood for a wiring diagram, email or call.

Winnebago has wiring for your your yearsm the solonids should be very close to atleast follow the logic..

http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/1993/105974.pdf second pic shows basic relay wires. not your model but electricity should be close..
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Old 09-05-2019, 12:35 PM   #5
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Tried AC power to coach

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibe View Post
seems like you have 2 issues, coach power and RV chassis power... Related maybe,, setting a long time, crappy grounds...

does chassis crank over , click or dash light up ??

in the rv coach stsem in the back, there is or should be a switch to trun on that battery... preetty simple, the relays work it..

If you plug in the RV to 110V the converter should power up the 12V,,, this would take afew things out of equation..

Focus on one stytem at a time,

ask fleetwood for a wiring diagram, email or call.

Winnebago has wiring for your your yearsm the solonids should be very close to atleast follow the logic..

http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/1993/105974.pdf second pic shows basic relay wires. not your model but electricity should be close..
Thanks Sibe. I plugged in coach to AC power. I have DC power to interior of coach, fans, lights, etc. I also have AC to the fridge (works!) and Aircon (blows warm - further on that.). I do not see the coach battery charging though, another indication there is an open circuit somewhere.

So on a cooler day will look at the ground and 12V power to fuel pump. I will also try to track down the reason the coach battery is not powering the coach, I jumpered to the positive terminal in the main panel and that then powers the coach 12v loads. (I almost wish to eliminate the Aux Power Start wiring as I am suspect that is part of the coach power problem... BTW I utilized a third party box under the hood for my Econoline Van that I equipped with a coach battery, seamless charging of coach battery and a one button under the hood for that emergency start function.)

No normal DC disconnect switch has been found for coach power.

Back to fuel issue - Something interesting I found in the Ford e350 cutaway manual - the prebuild state before becoming an RV - stated there was a fuel shutoff switch attached to the steering column. I found a 5 pin connector in wire loom at left side of steering column but nothing attached to it. Ideas?

Thanks for thinking about my strange issues. Luckily I have plenty of exterior issues like roof and side caulking & cleaning, window & step repair, with first planned camping in this in December in AZ. Cheers!

PS: The dash lights up, engine turns over, starts on starting fluid just no fuel.
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Old 09-06-2019, 06:28 AM   #6
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on the RV Fuel pump.. I am not sure if there is a fuel cut off/impact sensor... doubt it ..

anyway the fuel pump relay should b e on the firewall near fender while looking at the master cylinder, to the right of the master brake cylinder, 2 relays one is fuel the other is AC,, you can test it or swapp it with AC relay..

If you use another person and let them listen close to the tank, upon staging the key to RUN they should hear the fuel pump run for a couple of seconds.

this may help....attached
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:39 AM   #7
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On the FP circuit I have checked the 30A fuse and swapped the relay because I get no noise from the FP at the gas fill. BTW there is an inertia switch but I have bypassed it and no change. So the next step on that portion is checking the ground wire to the fuel pump and the 12V on the Pink/Black going to the FP. I am hoping it might just be a bad ground based on sitting idle for so long. Heading out on a camping trip in our stealth Econoline Van to Utah, so not dealing with RV until the 22nd or so. Still don't like that emergency aux power start circuit as I think it has to do with why I am not seeing coach power being fed from the battery to the 12 distribution panel. There is no "disconnect" switch or relay that I can figure out in the coach circuit. I can bypass with a manual power disconnect switch to resolve that, and as I said before eliminate that whole BS emergency start circuitry using a single module solution as I did on my Econoline van, not one lick of trouble, coach battery gets charged when driving.
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:50 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by RockyMTbiker View Post
On the FP circuit I have checked the 30A fuse and swapped the relay because I get no noise from the FP at the gas fill. BTW there is an inertia switch but I have bypassed it and no change. So the next step on that portion is checking the ground wire to the fuel pump and the 12V on the Pink/Black going to the FP. I am hoping it might just be a bad ground based on sitting idle for so long. Heading out on a camping trip in our stealth Econoline Van to Utah, so not dealing with RV until the 22nd or so. Still don't like that emergency aux power start circuit as I think it has to do with why I am not seeing coach power being fed from the battery to the 12 distribution panel. There is no "disconnect" switch or relay that I can figure out in the coach circuit. I can bypass with a manual power disconnect switch to resolve that, and as I said before eliminate that whole BS emergency start circuitry using a single module solution as I did on my Econoline van, not one lick of trouble, coach battery gets charged when driving.
The emergency start is only a big solenoid relay. There's no magic to it. Holding the switch down puts both chassis and coach batteries in a parallel connection.


How's the coach battery condition? Old? Dead? Unknown?


Also a unit that has sat this long likely has had rodents chewing on wires and making nests in difficult to find locations. While you're looking for corroded/rusted ground wiring connections keep an eye out for mouse/rat chewing damage. PVC insulation has a soy component (so I'm told, anyway) that rodents will see as a snack.
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Old 09-08-2019, 05:01 PM   #9
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The ford chassis also has wire issues, especially over the rear axle,, I have has 2 94/96 chassis with VSS/Speedo issues..and a fuel tank level issue from wires rubbing in harness at a splce..they shorted internittinly..

I have had a ECU go bad as a capaciter popped.. lost 5v reference..it would start but chug....
I can see wiring in my sleep//LOL
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Old 09-08-2019, 07:16 PM   #10
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I found this if its any help. It says some Tiogas have disconnects, not all. If you suspect the emergency start relays is the problem, you can bypass it with a set of jumper cables temporarily and see if anything changes. Here is the pdf I found. https://www.manualslib.com/manual/86...page=32#manual
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyMTbiker View Post
1993 26' Tioga sat for many years (>10), PO passed away so no help there. Starter and house battery replaced this week. I am tracing down a no start issue probably FP or FP power (I am on that issue) however... My Bigger concern is 12V House power NG, so the monitor panel is dead, no lights, no water pump, no action to gen start, etc. No power at power panel. I was looking for a disconnect switch but none are found. This RV has factory aux power switch for using house battery to start RV. Previously I had a Jamboree and all these functions worked so never paid much mind. Lacking a decent wiring diagram I am stuck in trace mode with the meter, don't get me wrong I can do that but if you have some insight where to look it may shorten my struggle. Relay under the hood, hidden disconnect, etc.? Any help will be much appreciated, thanks.
OK, so COACH battery cable/power goes from #1) BATTERY to #1A) (MAYBE BATTERY SWITCH?) to #2) 12vdc CIRCUIT BREAKERS, ([usually] within 18" of the battery itself?) w/ small RESET Button on the small end of the rectangular box), to #3) 40a FUSES (usually labeled REVERSE POLARITY, located near/ above the main panel fuses?) to #4) 12vdc Power Distribution FUSE PANEL? HOPE THIS HELPS.
Any solenoids are (usually) involved in the EMERGENCY START circuit that connects the Coach Battery to the Chassis Battery, controlled by an (ESS Button/ Toggle Switch), or (sometimes) by IGN to charge Coach battery when Engine running.
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Old 10-18-2019, 08:17 AM   #12
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Okay I am back on the fuel issue after fixing the driver side delamination of the outside Fiberglas - what a pain that was:

I found the Pink-Black wire near the fuel tank. With ignition on, I did a power check and found zero volts on the wire - I suspected something further. I did a continuity check between the pink black and ground - uh-oh continuity. So next thing was to cut the pink-black wire and check pump side vs. the wiring to the relay/battery.

So the pump side was not grounded, but the wiring to relay was grounded, that made no sense - any ideas?

Next I jumpered the 12V directly to the pump pink-black wire - no noise from pump - and I tried to start RV, no start.

So the pump is toast. Still puzzled why there is a ground on the pink-black from the relay - again any ideas appreciated.

I think at this point I should get a pro out to the house as I don't relish the idea of dropping the tank alone to replace the pump. I'll empty the tank, any best practices to empty tank? I know to be super careful with open flame or sparks.

Jeff
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