2005 Fleetwood Tioga 31M

[Old Radios]

Originally Posted by Mich F

I'm pretty sure that's not quite accurate. Ford had 14,050# GVW and 20,000# GCW ratings for those vehicles, not a 5,000# tow rating. Fleetwood decided to rate it for only 3,500# for towing and put the 3,500# hitch on it. Replacing the 3,500# hitch with a 5,000# hitch doesn't change Fleetwood's rating.
If that frame extension was done according to Ford's specs. the motor home should have retained the original Ford ratings.
I'm pretty sure if you looked at the frame on your 26Q, you would see that it also has had the frame extended. I have a 22' Coachmen that had the frame extended. It came from the factory with a 3,500# hitch. I had a welding shop fabricate a hitch that ties into the main frame eliminating any concerns about the frame extension.

The Ford factory specs (2005/2006) actually state the E450 cutaway chassis as delivered from the factory to the RV manufacturer is capable of towing 10,000 lbs. but that has to be subtracted from the overall GCWR of the completed unit. The box manufacturer will then rate the hitch and towing capacity by the total weight of the completed RV and the length/quality of the chassis extension.

More than likely the lower hitch rating on a E450 chassis is due to the unit being too close to the max weight capacity already. The longer the chassis, the bigger the box, the closer to the max, the less it will pull. Beefing up the hitch does nothing to change the overall weight and rated towing capacity. If you had a #3500 lb. hitch then the RV was either too heavy already or it is a E350 chassis or it was installed by the RV manufacturer or whoever extended the chassis. Ford does not extend the frames so the original 3500 lb. hitch was most likely not a Ford factory installed hitch. Replacing a 3500 lb. hitch with a 5,000 lb. hitch does nothing if you don't have the weight capacity left and the suspension for it. The ratings are there for a reason.

[Old Radios]

Here's the 2006 Tioga specs:

[Old Radios]

I might add that the 31M has quite a bit of overhang in the rear. Another reason for lowering the overall weight/tow rating on the 31M. It's Kindergarten science. It's a long chassis extension behind the rear axle. The more weight in the back and on the hitch the less weight on the front (steering axle) just like on a teeter-totter. I'm sure they lower the overall cargo carrying capacity rating as they don't want people to load up the rear and cause handling problems. Still the same original Ford E450 as the other models but with that long overhang extension added there's a good chance of overloading the back and creating handling problems up front so they reduce the ratings to cover their butts.

[Mich F]

When the 2005/2006 E450 left the factory, Ford gave it a 14,050GVWR and a 20,000GCWR. No matter what the the RV builder does to the vehicle, those are the specs. for the cab/chassis. If the frame extensions are done to Ford's specs. those ratings should still apply. Fleetwood chose to downgrade it, probaly because of their extension.
The new hitch on my E350 goes to, and is bolted to, the main frame before the Coachmen frame extension, eliminating the quality, or lack of quality, of the extension, from the equation.

Here's Winnebago's brochure for the 2005 Minnie Winnie, which on pg 7, shows full Ford ratings.

http://media.gowinnebago.com/models/...oom=150,62,733

[Mich F]

Originally Posted by Old Radios

I might add that the 31M has quite a bit of overhang in the rear. Another reason for lowering the overall weight/tow rating on the 31M. It's Kindergarten science. It's a long chassis extension behind the rear axle. The more weight in the back and on the hitch the less weight on the front (steering axle) just like on a teeter-totter. I'm sure they lower the overall cargo carrying capacity rating as they don't want people to load up the rear and cause handling problems. Still the same original Ford E450 as the other models but with that long overhang extension added there's a good chance of overloading the back and creating handling problems up front so they reduce the ratings to cover their butts.

I found that 31M GCWR to be strange, as if it is a misprint. The E450 on that model has the same GCWR as the Chevrolet unit.

[Nevadastars]

Originally Posted by Mich F

I'm pretty sure that's not quite accurate. Ford had 14,050# GVW and 20,000# GCW ratings for those vehicles, not a 5,000# tow rating. Fleetwood decided to rate it for only 3,500# for towing and put the 3,500# hitch on it. Replacing the 3,500# hitch with a 5,000# hitch doesn't change Fleetwood's rating.
If that frame extension was done according to Ford's specs. the motor home should have retained the original Ford ratings.
I'm pretty sure if you looked at the frame on your 26Q, you would see that it also has had the frame extended. I have a 22' Coachmen that had the frame extended. It came from the factory with a 3,500# hitch. I had a welding shop fabricate a hitch that ties into the main frame eliminating any concerns about the frame extension.

That is the odd thing, why Fleetwood changed their ratings over the Ford factory specs. Maybe to prevent possible lawsuits or warranty issues?

[Mich F]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

That is the odd thing, why Fleetwood changed their ratings over the Ford factory specs. Maybe to prevent possible lawsuits or warranty issues?

It was pretty much the norm to put 3,500# hitches on C's with Fords, from about 1998, until 2008 or so, when they went to a 5,000# hitch as the norm. Ford also went from a 20,000 GCWR (for the E450's) to 22,000# GCWR in those years.

In your case your current vehicle has a GVWR of 14,500# and the GCWR of 22,000#. The vehicle you are interested in has a 14,050# GVWR and a 20,000# GCWR. I'd be willing to bet that vehicle you are interested in, is very close to the GVWR. I really think you would do better with something on a 2008 or later cab/chassis. There are a number of improvements, other than upping the ratings, Ford made in that model year.

[Old Radios]

I'm sure they de-rated it as with the weight of the rig there is only a few hundred pounds of cargo carrying capacity left if pulling 5000 pounds and they know that a couple of people, gear, and full tanks will add way more than that. It would easily put it over the max when towing 5000. Pile junk in the back with that long extension and weight on the hitch and there goes any passable handling the front end might have had. RV manufacturers should be called out for building rigs that are almost at their maximum CC but the industry just keeps doing it. I looked at and drove a newer 31 when shopping for mine and the extension was just way too long. In fact, one newer B we looked at only had a few hundred pounds left when leaving the factory. That should not be allowed.

[Mich F]

Originally Posted by Old Radios

I'm sure they de-rated it as with the weight of the rig there is only a few hundred pounds of cargo carrying capacity left if pulling 5000 pounds and they know that a couple of people, gear, and full tanks will add way more than that. It would easily put it over the max when towing 5000. Pile junk in the back with that long extension and weight on the hitch and there goes any passable handling the front end might have had. RV manufacturers should be called out for building rigs that are almost at their maximum CC but the industry just keeps doing it. I looked at and drove a newer 31 when shopping for mine and the extension was just way too long. In fact, one newer B we looked at only had a few hundred pounds left when leaving the factory. That should not be allowed.

I definitely agree with the absurdity of RV manufacturers putting out units that are anywhere near their GVWR, when the vehicle leaves the factory. Not all manufacturers do that , or at least not in all of their models. My newer Itasca has a OCCC of 3,275#, which is very respectable. About a month ago I bought an older Itasca with the same layout as my newer one, but I seriously doubt it has anywhere near the OCCC of the newer one. I haven't had it weighed, actually I haven't even driven it yet, but it is a high end model, with basement storage, like an A, and a whole bunch of "stuff" the newer one doesn't have.

[Nevadastars]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is OCCC? It is not in the specs for our current coach or the one we are thinking about getting.

[Santara]

i understant hitch weight if u are adding by way of ball or torsion bars (hang dn weight) but pulling 4 dn should not add that much weight. it is adding to pull but not dn weight. jmo

[Santara]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

Excuse my ignorance, but what is OCCC? It is not in the specs for our current coach or the one we are thinking about getting.

should be a sheet someplace on rig usually in cabinet. stuck on wall, have heard abt newer 1 being by dr door

[wanderso]

I guess I figure that the manufacturers don't just make up an arbitrary number for towing capacity. Of course it is ALWAYS better from a marketing perspective to say it has a 5,000 pound towing capacity rather than 3,500 and they would have if they could. One may be able to choose to override their intentions, but safety and durability were likely a factor and not just saving a few pennies on a cheaper hitch setup. I do suspect that in the event of an accident with a rig that sold with a 3,500 lb rating that was upgraded would not survive a court case challenge by a someone who was injured in an adjacent vehicle in an accident where a trailer lost control due to a tire blowout, etc.

One has to decide if it is worth the risk, even if a small one.

[Mich F]

Originally Posted by Nevadastars

Excuse my ignorance, but what is OCCC? It is not in the specs for our current coach or the one we are thinking about getting.

OCCC is occupant and cargo carrying capacity. It has taken the place of the old CCC. In my 2014 there is a big yellow sticker on the driver's door.