Bilstein or Koni shocks for 27 foot E450 type C

[coachmanjay]

A couple of random thoughts on Capt Steve's "rant". Just because a product can be improved does not make it junk. If you can take a ford sedan and spend some money and make it handle like a BMW, why wouldn't you? Exaggeration of course. When Ford builds the E450 cut-a-way chassis, they don't know the ultimate use,box van or 31 ft MH. The front sway bar is fine for a box truck, but way undersized for most MHs. The same for factory alignment. It is common knowledge that the factory alignment is wrong for a MH. Manufactures usually don't have the cability to do alignments. If you want it, make it part of your purchase agreement. In regards to shocks, I put Bilsteins on my previous 24 ft C, and was very happy with the improvement. With my 27 ft I opted for Koni's and have been very pleased with the ride improvement. It is hard to have point by point comparison, but I feel the Koni's made a larger difference and a smoother ride.

[Capt Steve]

Originally Posted by coachmanjay

A couple of random thoughts on Capt Steve's "rant". Just because a product can be improved does not make it junk. If you can take a ford sedan and spend some money and make it handle like a BMW, why wouldn't you? Exaggeration of course. When Ford builds the E450 cut-a-way chassis, they don't know the ultimate use,box van or 31 ft MH. The front sway bar is fine for a box truck, but way undersized for most MHs. The same for factory alignment. It is common knowledge that the factory alignment is wrong for a MH. Manufactures usually don't have the cability to do alignments. If you want it, make it part of your purchase agreement. In regards to shocks, I put Bilsteins on my previous 24 ft C, and was very happy with the improvement. With my 27 ft I opted for Koni's and have been very pleased with the ride improvement. It is hard to have point by point comparison, but I feel the Koni's made a larger difference and a smoother ride.

To answer your original {albeit exaggeration} question...

First of all no amount of money is going to make a Ford drive like a BMW and you would simply be throwing money away to try. Far better to suck it up and buy the Beemer if that is what you want.

Yes the venerable E-450 {and 350's} are built for a multitude of uses and no one size fits all so to speak. But any quality motorhome manufacturer will properly align the finished coach before it leaves the factory. You should not have to do this on your dime after spending the big money to buy new.

I can assure you the $60,000 SUV I alluded to will come properly aligned so why would you accept a motorhome that isn't? The same holds true for aftermarket steering/suspension modifications, a new coach should need nothing right off of the showroom floor or you bought the wrong coach.

When stuff wears out in normal usage by all means replace with the best gear you can find... like Bilstein's or Koni's as you really cannot go wrong with either.

As always.... Opinions and YMMV.

[OFDPOS]

Steve
Don't want to rain on your parade, but even Nexus didn't start checking/doing alignments on theirs until last year when they expanded their manufacturing plant.
And that came straight from Dave M.

At least the last 3 MH's we've owned , right in the owners manual it states an alignment is recommended.
Don't have our current one at home other wise I'd get the manual out and paraphrase it word for word.

Like I've posted here and other talk forums , the E150 through the E450 uses the same undersized puny front Anti Sway Bar , it may work for the E150 delivery van, but Not for a E350 - E450 chassis with a big ol box (coach) connected to it.

So for ford to put those small ASB on the front and on the rear as well , most likely its a one size fits all too with the shocks ? !

I must say tho I was surprised when I removed the stock shocks on the ford E450 they were gas shocks , but the ones I took off my two older MH's both on Chevy 3500 chassis were not.

[Capt Steve]

Brian,

When we toured the factory I saw the alignment station and was told that every coach makes its last stop there before being delivered. One was being aligned as we walked through that section of the factory. We have had ours for 4+ years and 41,000 miles and I have never had the alignment done yet my tires wear evenly and the ride is smooth with excellent handling. No way the chassis came dialed in like that from the Ford factory.

When we went cross country 3 years ago we must have hit every pothole between Tucson and Maine with Washington DC and Michigan being the worst... honorable mention going to Massachusetts and Illinois. Even with all of the abuse
that 7,800 mile trip heaped upon our coach it still tracks straight as an arrow with two finger steering so somebody got it right.

I probably should have it checked but under the heading of "If it ain't broke don't fix it" I will probably just continue to monitor for the problems that have yet to arise. I remain very happy, after 13,000 miles, with the heavy duty Bilsteins I replaced the original shocks with and monitor tire pressures {based upon Michelin's load tables}, carefully.

I firmly believe that when buying a new motorhome it should ride and handle very well starting with mile one with no further modifications. When you buy a $60 to $100,000 SUV it comes properly aligned so why should a Motorhome not?


Perhaps I've just been lucky but I think a lot of folks spend inordinate amounts of time and money seeking solutions for which there is no known problem {the government does this a lot}.

[OFDPOS]

In your travels and happen upon any Viper models , run your hand over the front tires.
Guaranty the tires will be feathered bad !

When I was on the phone with Dave I mentioned it and he made the comment when the new plant expansion was added they added an alignment rack.

Now maybe they had an alignment rack when you visited , but Dave acted like it was all new they just started doing it in late 2015 - 2016 ?

Now if they are doing an alignment last stop out of the shop , they are doing it wrong.
The MH needs to be loaded for the way its going to travel Not empty like it is coming out of the factory

I also brought that up to Dave , I suggested they at bare minimum fill ALL the tanks and even put in an extra few hundred pounds of ?? spread out .
That would give a more actual real life starting point to do an alignment.

Since now I have an Aspect I don't have the big top overhang above the cab.
Neither do the Vipers and every single Viper I've come across the front tires were feathered to straight out cupped bad.

So far we've only put about 2,000 miles on ours with new tires and even tho I need to get an alignment check (because this thing wonders all over the road and gets pushed with even a SUV passing us ! The front tires are showing NO sign of feathering at all.

Yet on 3 different Vipers with less than 2500 miles shown feathering bad !
Thought that was odd them being sold used with those low of miles, that's just about the amount of miles one would have on it delivered out here on the West coast?
The other 4 I have come across had anywhere from 4k to 9k miles on them , obvious that the tires had not been rotated and the front tires needed to be replaced they were cupped and worn so bad.
Had a proper alignment been done it would of at least helped ?.
But I think its more being such a long overhang in the rear and overloading the rear axle its lightened up the front axle too much.

I honestly think the first few years were the best built ones , they have gone through some major growing pains in the last few years...

You know the story on the used 23P I almost bought , that one like yours was a quality built unit !

Back to the OP's question Bilstein's or Koni's .
Have experience with both , like my first post on this thread , go with the Bilsteins and Helwig Anti sway bars.

Even then you Will get pushed by a passing Semi anyone who says they don't are pulling your leg...
I'd like to get a ride in one who says they don't get pushed after replacing the shocks, ASB's etc.

I've done all three shocks (waste of money went with Koni's from the echo chambers here and on other talk forums on how great they are ,,, should have just listen to my gut feelings and stayed with known proven Bilstein's). The ASB's front and rear and the Safe-T-Plus SS . Still need to get an alignment and hoping to be able to get a rear trac bar installed.
Right now it doesn't show one available for 2010 E450 with rear airbag helpers installed. Or at least I can't find somewhere that sells/installs one !

[Capt Steve]

Brian,

I think there is merit to your theory that the early models were better built as I have not had any of the issues some of the later model owners have encountered. Back in 2012 when mine was built, they were building far fewer coaches and there obviously was much better attention to detail. Also, there was a lot of turnover at the factory after that. Hopefully, they are getting back to the original agenda.

Congratulations it sounds like you finally have a coach that will work for you. It is too bad the 23P you saw was so trashed, had it been in the same shape as mine I think you would have bought it and been as happy as I am.

I can't explain why mine handles and drives so well since other than the replacement Bilstein's it is completely stock. All I know is that I have logged 41,000+ miles all over the country over the last 4+ years in every imaginable weather and road condition and had zero problems with the ride and driveability.

Believe it or don't but trucks blowing by me are never a problem. Certain model 18 wheelers push a bigger wind bubble than others, car carriers for some reason seem to be about the worst, I can feel them go by but they don't shove me around.

I agree that most of the echo chamber hype over Koni's is just that. I think they are fine shocks but hardly worth the money considering how well the Bilstein's work but after spending that much folks tend to love what they bought. Nothing wrong with that as long as the job gets done.

No major trips lined up for the rest of the year but come January we will be back out on the road and I hope we can get together and trade notes on our coaches and get in some rides on our Harley's.

[Charles L]

Originally Posted by OFDPOS

Right now it doesn't show one available for 2010 E450 with rear airbag helpers installed. Or at least I can't find somewhere that sells/installs one !

There is a rear track bar for Ford e450 with airbags. A quick phone call should verify if it will work. I put this on my 2016 chassis.


SuperSteer Rear Trac Bar for Ford E450 Chassis

[hilgert]

Once I found that Charles L had installed a trac bar on his identical year/model Sunseeker, I ordered and installed one. They way our (mine/Charles') factory air bags are installed there is no interference. However, depending on how airbags are installed in other motorhomes, interference could be an issue.

Big difference in tracking when turning at any appreciable speed with our heavier towed connected (was less of an issue with the prior lighter towed, but was still there). It's one of those things I was not sure we needed, but now wished I'd done much sooner.

[OFDPOS]

Originally Posted by Charles L

There is a rear track bar for Ford e450 with airbags. A quick phone call should verify if it will work. I put this on my 2016 chassis.


SuperSteer Rear Trac Bar for Ford E450 Chassis

Strange I had called them before and talked with the Parts dept they said no it will not work with rear air bags installed.

I called back this morning and talked with someone else.
They can be installed , the bracket and bolts need to be installed first a certain way then the rest of the install will go smoothly.

So looks like a trac bar is the near future !

[hilgert]

Originally Posted by OFDPOS

Strange I had called them before and talked with the Parts dept they said no it will not work with rear air bags installed.

I called back this morning and talked with someone else.
They can be installed , the bracket and bolts need to be installed first a certain way then the rest of the install will go smoothly.

So looks like a trac bar is the near future !

It really depends on what airbags you have installed. Assuming you have the Firestone Ride-Ride 2153 (what Charles and I have) it would look like the below, and would not provide interference for a trac bar as it sits *on* the spring and *outside* the frame:


I you had the Firestone Ride-Ride 2548 it might cause interference when installing a trac bar as it impinges on space where one of the trac bar brackets is installed as it sits *inside* the spring and *inside* the frame (which is where one of the trac bar brackets goes):

[OFDPOS]

Yep I have the second one 2548 ...

[hilgert]

Originally Posted by OFDPOS

Yep I have the second one 2548 ...

All hope is not [yet] lost. It *may* be possible to position the trac bar bracket such that it *may* not interfere with the air bag bracket, but it would be a long shot. You could ask if the vendor would take the setup back if you cannot install it...as long as they say you can install it first of course. You'd have to loosely install the bracket on the frame, loosely install the other bracket on the axle, and position the bar to see if you can move the frame bracket around. When I did my install there seemed to be a bit of room, but I was not looking at an air bag install (as mine is the other air bag setup).

On Amazon if it says "Ships from and sold by Amazon.com" it's pretty easy to return. I bought mine from Amazon (the Blue Ox version). Note that if you do buy the Amazon version, the picture on their site is *not* the version you'd get...you'd get (as I did) the correct version that looks like the SuperSteer version.

Near as I can tell, the Blue Ox version looks to be identical to the SuperSteer version...except it's black instead of blue (I liked the black version as it looks more like a factory install). It's probable that one either stole the design from the other (I'd have my guess on which way that went), one purchases/relabels from the other, or they both purchase from the same "someone else".

[mike.t]

Very interesting (and good) comments from most. Don't quite understand how some class A owners can chime in way different chassis. Capt. Steve Don't rant then say rant off. Doesn't work.
JMHO of course.

[Capt Steve]

Originally Posted by mike.t

Very interesting (and good) comments from most. Don't quite understand how some class A owners can chime in way different chassis. Capt. Steve Don't rant then say rant off. Doesn't work.
JMHO of course.

LMAO. What I said back in post #14 was "rant off for now" though the subsequent posts weren't all that much of a rant. I also stated "As always.... opinions and YMMV". Feel free not to read what I post.