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Old 10-22-2019, 01:02 PM   #15
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My first motorized RV, a Gulfstream 33 FT class a was so stressful to drive on the highway. Constant adjustments to keep it going straight. Did the usual alignments, tire pressure etc.


I could have spent a bunch of money on it. This was at a time when computers were becoming popular and I was learning to use one. Took a lot of time on the net and talking to people to find out the RV was too long for the chassis and the problem was compounded because I was towing with it.



Even has a name, axle to length ratio. https://axleaddict.com/rvs/Why-RV-Wh...o-Is-Important



Kept it less than a year and was thrilled to get rid of it. Bought a diesel pusher and kept that 10 years. Now have a little Toyota.
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Old 10-23-2019, 10:15 AM   #16
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When it comes to "handling" in a class C, the E350 and E450 get the most complaints, in-part from their abundance.

The ratio of the wheel base to the over-all length is very influential. That is why some people say "All Is Well" with their new purchase, while others like me, had to invest in suspension upgrades to say the same. At least we got there and so "All Is Well" with us for 12 years now with our 2007 E350 with a standard 158" wheel base and over-all length of 23'-8". Spending an extra 4% to get us happy was well worth it.

Each rig will have it's own influences to handling. Not just wheel base versus length, but also where the house weight is distributed. I put this diagram together of our rig to visualize our particular weight distribution. It does not take an expert to see that most of our weight sits on the rear axle, rendering the front end light and floating. The suspension upgrades properly addressed the "driver-handling" troubles. I am toying with lower-rated front coil springs to lower the front. Loaded up and ready for a trip, you can see in the picture that the front sits high.
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Old 10-23-2019, 12:52 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ron Dittmer View Post
When it comes to "handling" in a class C, the E350 and E450 get the most complaints, in-part from their abundance.

The ratio of the wheel base to the over-all length is very influential. That is why some people say "All Is Well" with their new purchase, while others like me, had to invest in suspension upgrades to say the same. At least we got there and so "All Is Well" with us for 12 years now with our 2007 E350 with a standard 158" wheel base and over-all length of 23'-8". Spending an extra 4% to get us happy was well worth it.

Each rig will have it's own influences to handling. Not just wheel base versus length, but also where the house weight is distributed. I put this diagram together of our rig to visualize our particular weight distribution. It does not take an expert to see that most of our weight sits on the rear axle, rendering the front end light and floating. The suspension upgrades properly addressed the "driver-handling" troubles. I am toying with lower-rated front coil springs to lower the front. Loaded up and ready for a trip, you can see in the picture that the front sits high.
Hi Ron,

I am surprised a Phoenox Cruiser needs handling mods, what you about the weight on the rear axle makes sense though.
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Old 10-23-2019, 01:20 PM   #18
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Hi Ron,

I am surprised a Phoenox Cruiser needs handling mods, what you about the weight on the rear axle makes sense though.
Phoenix USA always made great motor homes, but they were not chassis-focused until recent years. They are in the "chassis game" as of late with optional suspension upgrades (upon request) offering much of the same upgrades I had done elsewhere in 2007. Today they even offer a rear axle Liquid Spring upgrade for a whopping $10,000.

Like all exceptionally short class C's on the E350 chassis, the shortest of PC's in the past were most prone to handling issues, especially on the E350 chassis of 2007 and older. My 2007 E350 PC falls into that category. In those years, the E350 chassis had no rear stabilizer bar of any kind.

PC models 2351 and longer are better, model 2552 seeming an ideal wheel base to length ratio. Model 2100 was the worst handling of the bunch with a very short 138" wheel base and a massive rear over-hang.

This year Phoenix decided to build every model on the E450 chassis which improves handling and eliminates rear end sag in the shorter models. But new PC owners are saying the ride is quite rough. So there is a trade-off in there somewhere. At least owners have the option to remove a leaf spring or two in back for fine tuning.

The front coil springs are the same in the E350 and E450, even going back to my 2007 E350. I bought the next lower-rated front coil springs to experiment with. When I get some time, I will swap them and see if my rig levels out and rides softer up front. If successful (I anticipate a sacrifice in handling) I'll be going in for an alignment thereafter to make it all good again.
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Old 10-23-2019, 06:49 PM   #19
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Phoenix USA always made great motor homes, but they were not chassis-focused until recent years. They are in the "chassis game" as of late with optional suspension upgrades (upon request) offering much of the same upgrades I had done elsewhere in 2007. Today they even offer a rear axle Liquid Spring upgrade for a whopping $10,000.

Like all exceptionally short class C's on the E350 chassis, the shortest of PC's in the past were most prone to handling issues, especially on the E350 chassis of 2007 and older. My 2007 E350 PC falls into that category. In those years, the E350 chassis had no rear stabilizer bar of any kind.

PC models 2351 and longer are better, model 2552 seeming an ideal wheel base to length ratio. Model 2100 was the worst handling of the bunch with a very short 138" wheel base and a massive rear over-hang.

This year Phoenix decided to build every model on the E450 chassis which improves handling and eliminates rear end sag in the shorter models. But new PC owners are saying the ride is quite rough. So there is a trade-off in there somewhere. At least owners have the option to remove a leaf spring or two in back for fine tuning.

The front coil springs are the same in the E350 and E450, even going back to my 2007 E350. I bought the next lower-rated front coil springs to experiment with. When I get some time, I will swap them and see if my rig levels out and rides softer up front. If successful (I anticipate a sacrifice in handling) I'll be going in for an alignment thereafter to make it all good again.
I have always admired the Phoneix Cruisers and always thought it would be a nice downsize:-)
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Old 10-23-2019, 08:30 PM   #20
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I have always admired the Phoneix Cruisers and always thought it would be a nice downsize:-)
We up-sized from THIS RIG we owned for 24 years, so our PC has been a mansion by comparison.

But most people who bought a PC, downsized from something bigger. PC's do seem to be as small as you can get with only a sacrifice to elbow room. Years ago they were marketed as a big B, sort-of between a B and B+.

But the View/Navion Sprinter types came into this market around 2006 so there have been other down-size choices for a while now. But only a rare few E-Series, especially as of late.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:15 AM   #21
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We up-sized from THIS RIG we owned for 24 years, so our PC has been a mansion by comparison.

But most people who bought a PC, downsized from something bigger. PC's do seem to be as small as you can get with only a sacrifice to elbow room. Years ago they were marketed as a big B, sort-of between a B and B+.

But the View/Navion Sprinter types came into this market around 2006 so there have been other down-size choices for a while now. But only a rare few E-Series, especially as of late.
We did look at a couple of Navion/Views and liked them a lot.

We ended up with a 38ft Winnebago on a rear gas chassis, it drove so nice compared to all the f53's I had driven.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:16 AM   #22
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When its time to change our coach I will seriously consider a 4x4 Phoenix Cruiser.
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Old 10-25-2019, 05:38 AM   #23
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When its time to change our coach I will seriously consider a 4x4 Phoenix Cruiser.
Phoenix Cruiser owners are generally extremely happy with their rigs, and the 4x4 Quigley owners are no exception.

There is a very good video on Phoenix's website where the sales rep (Earl at the time), goes through the features of the 4x4 Quigley mechanics and operations. The video is done on a chassis before the house was built on it. Interesting that he states it's all Ford parts. Maybe he meant Ford-approved parts covered under the Ford warranty. I admit, I don't know much about the 4x4 Quigley conversion.
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Old 10-25-2019, 06:53 AM   #24
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Phoenix Cruiser owners are generally extremely happy with their rigs, and the 4x4 Quigley owners are no exception.

There is a very good video on Phoenix's website where the sales rep (Earl at the time), goes through the features of the 4x4 Quigley mechanics and operations. The video is done on a chassis before the house was built on it. Interesting that he states it's all Ford parts. Maybe he meant Ford-approved parts covered under the Ford warranty. I admit, I don't know much about the 4x4 Quigley conversion.
I think I have seen the same video.
I spoke to Earl a couple of years ago and he told me if I wanted 4x4 it would have to be new as they never popped up on the used market.
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