E350 vs E450

[TomHinMd]

Hi all,
I am looking at down sizing to a class B plus. The one I am looking at is a Phoenix Cruiser Model 2350S that comes on the E350, it is 24 feet long. I would be ordering the unit and can possibly change the chassis to the E450 at a cost of $2000. My thinking is that this would add about 2,000 lbs to the CCC. I don't know what else it might effect. The salesman claims the E350 get 10-12 mpg while the E450 only get 8-10 mpg. Would the ride/handling change by going to the "super duty" chassis? Are there any other benifts or negatives this change would have? Any insight you can give me would help. Thanks in advance.
Tom

[TXiceman]

Check the rear axle ratio code on the 350 and the 450. It will tell the tale on if they are equal.

Personally, I'd got for the E450 as you will get more weight carry capacity.

Oh and you can generally forget 99.9% of anything a salesman tells you.

Ken

[TomHinMd]

The E350 has a rear axle ratio of 4.10 and the E450 has 4.56. I do not understand what that means.
BTW, I have several friends that are sales people and they are good people. So please hold the negative remarks about sale people.

[TXiceman]

I to came from a background of technical sales (30 years+) and I still do not trust most sales people. Their job is to sell RVs. Most of the RV sales people have very little actual experience with RVing.

The 4.10 axle means that for each 4.1 revolutions of the drive shaft the wheels will rotate once. On the 4.56 axle, it means that the drive shaft will rotate 4.56 time for each rotation of the wheels. So with the 4.56, there are more engine revolutions per mile and it will use more gas. BUT if you are in hills or towing something, the 4.56 will be the one you want. It lets the engine rev up and develop power in it's power range. If you will be in flat lands all of the time and want slightly better fuel economy...the 4.10 is the way to go. The 4.56 will turn the engine about 11% faster for a given speed.

If you are running in hills or heavily loaded, you can get better fuel economy with the 4.56 than with the 4.10.

Also, the E450 is rated to carry more weight and the suspension will not be as close to limits for the same basic load from a B+ body.

[Fleetwoody]

Originally Posted by TXiceman

I to came from a background of technical sales (30 years+) and I still do not trust most sales people. Their job is to sell RVs. Most of the RV sales people have very little actual experience with RVing.

The 4.10 axle means that for each 4.1 revolutions of the drive shaft the wheels will rotate once. On the 4.56 axle, it means that the drive shaft will rotate 4.56 time for each rotation of the wheels. So with the 4.56, there are more engine revolutions per mile and it will use more gas. BUT if you are in hills or towing something, the 4.56 will be the one you want. It lets the engine rev up and develop power in it's power range. If you will be in flat lands all of the time and want slightly better fuel economy...the 4.10 is the way to go. The 4.56 will turn the engine about 11% faster for a given speed.

If you are running in hills or heavily loaded, you can get better fuel economy with the 4.56 than with the 4.10.

Also, the E450 is rated to carry more weight and the suspension will not be as close to limits for the same basic load from a B+ body.

this would be true provided the rest of the drive train is the same. Is the transmission the same?

[TXiceman]

E350 and E450 both use the same transmission and generally the same size tires.

ken

[CD]

Are the tires the same dia. The 4:56 may have bigger dia. tires therefore not as much difference in engine RPM.

[RandD]

We looked at the Phoenix Cruiser and that was my choice except for the bed arrangements.

As I recall, the largest differences between the E350 and E450 related to capacity. The E350 has lighter duty components all around. Ken noted that the rear end ratio is typicaly different which really can impact fuel mileage. Also, the E350 typicaly comes with a V8 engine while the E450 almost always has the V-10 engine and both offer a Diesel optoin. While the V8 uses less fuel, I love the V10 and would not want to give up additional HP and torque, heavier duty chassis components, and the higher weight capacity! On that note, the ride with the E-450 will _not_ be as 'gentle' as the E350!! When you put that much weight on a beefed up van chassis, something has to be sacrificed and ride is one of the things at the top of the list.

Our E450, running right under the rear axle max weight load and towing a Chevy HHR, typically averages 8.5 MPG (+/- a bit) on long trips (3,000miles). Shorter trip mileage is subject more to local driving conditions and I always pre-plan fuel stops based on 7.5 mpg. for all trips.

Hope this helps! Randy

[rvten]

One comes with a V-8 the other a V-10. Our neighbor just down sized from a DP to a Platinum 26' on a E-450. SO far has only driven it from FL. back here to TN.

[TomHinMd]

Just a quick followup to my question. I went to the Phoneix Cruiser factory last week and what they were offering based on the way they ordered the chassis from Ford was the E350 and the E450. They both can be order from Ford with multiple options making them vastly different or very close to the same. In this case both had the same V10 engine, transmission, wheels and tires. The differences had to do with the suspension being heavier duty/larger springs, axles, sway bars and a different rear end ratio, E350 = 4.10 E450 = 4.56. In reading up on the internet, the experts say that the difference between the two ratios will lower the mpg about 1/2 mpg but allow for better towing and hill climbing. the dual rear wheels on the E450 are about 1" wider at the outside edge. If it wasn't point out to me, I would never have noticed it.
Since I wanted the extra 2,000 lbs payload and better sway control and the ride was not an issue, I went ahead and ordered the E450.
Thank you all for the input you have given me.

[TXiceman]

Way to go!

Ken

[pwechols]

for the $2000,00 you spent - you got a lot - i wish there was a E550 chassie for thes class C's