Electrical Issues

[MrZip]

Well just when I thought I had a handle on not doing bonehead mistakes when using the various systems in my outlaw 29h, I find that if I would have had a simple electrical component checked out when I first picked up my coach it would have prevented what is now a $2800.00 repair 2 years later.

Here's the tale, hoping to save others from this kind of repair.

1st our friends at Thor didn't bother to completely install the leveling system at the factory. Seems like part of the wiring was missing from the brake sensor to the pump motor and control. The dealer had to complete the work Thor failed to do (even though on their checklist it was checked the leveling system was good) I remember that the leveling system never seemed to work right, was always beeping and continually showed LOW VOLTAGE had to be reset and never seemed to auto level. I could get the system to level in manual mode. Wanting to try and use the MH, I decided I would just live with the quirks in the leveling system.

Another incident that ties into this is after owning the MH about 3 months I went to start the engine and the battery was completely dead. I tried using the emergency start button and it did nothing. (Ford replaced the battery under warranty but didn't check any electrical systems.)

So at this point I choose to ignore the fact that the emergency start button didn't work, and that I get LOW VOLTAGE warnings on leveling system.

This was not smart, if systems are not operating as intended, there is a reason. I was tired of constantly being in for repairs, but this thinking has came back and bit me in a big way.

So last month I get down to Gulf Shores Al, and go to level the MH. The instructions for leveling say to start the MH, apply the parking brake and level. Well all I got was more beeps and alarms from the leveling system and a constant ERROR message RETURN FOR SERVICE. Turns out the motor and hydraulic pump were shorted out due to all those incidents of low voltage.

The dealership ordered the new motor and pump assembly (Yes, it's that assembly that has all those hoses running to it) and when testing saw that the LOW VOLTAGE was displayed again. Turns out under the dash was a bad solenoid, that when working properly sends an electrical charge to the coach batteries FROM the engine. That same solenoid also relays a electrical charge from the coach batteries TO the engine when the emergency start button is engaged. With the solenoid bad the coach batteries were getting run down when the MH was running all day and when pulling in the campground at the end of the day even with the engine running the leveling system was not getting the proper voltage.

So there you go my whole problem all along was a simple solenoid that cost me a $2800.00 repair, that could have and should been repaired early on for nothing.

[G.T.]

MrZip, don't feel bad, with electrical problems it's always "ONLY"
bad ground,
poor connection,
corroded terminal,
bad ECM or relay.
Usually to fix electrical issue is easy, but to find the reason why - is a different ball game altogether.

[TurnOne]

You have me worried about mine.

The low voltage I attributed to two crappy wet cell batteries. I'm planning to swap in two AGM's and a better convertor than the original one.

My auto leveler won't auto level. It sometimes thinks it's level but it's not. I called Thor and they emailed me a current manual for the auto leveler. It was newer than the manual that came with my 29h. Tried to do it myself 3-4 times. Didn't work. I called them back. They were very friendly. We walked through the steps together and he told me my auto leveler unit appears to be bad and will need to be replaced. Maybe this is true.

I need to schedule a factor service visit to do the 15-20 items on my punch list. I'll be asking a lot of questions on the auto leveler system. I surely don't want a large repair bill for something that wasn't done right at the factory.

Chris

[MrZip]

The coach batteries are charged two ways. When the engine is running a charge is sent to the coach batteries, You can check this by looking at the amount of charge in your control panel. In other words you should get 4 red lights indicating full charge when the vehicle is running. Also when you turn on the leveling system make sure the vehicle is running with the parking brake set. You should not be getting any LOW VOLTAGE warnings I think mine said 14.1 volts after the repair I just got done.

Your coach batteries are also charged by your converter, when connected to shore power. Thor uses WFCO WF-8900 power center, the converter takes 110 voltage and converts it to 13.6 DC volts.

The converter charges your coach batteries in 3 phases.

Phase 1 Absorption Mode (Normal Operation)

Phase 2 Bulk Mode (Charge Mode/Fast battery charge)

Phase 3 Float mode (Trickle charge/light or no load)

Thor also used the PRO XM1000 Inverter which takes DC voltage and changes it to 110 volts to power TV's and other small appliances when running off the coach batteries.

[TurnOne]

Originally Posted by MrZip

The coach batteries are charged two ways. When the engine is running a charge is sent to the coach batteries, You can check this by looking at the amount of charge in your control panel. In other words you should get 4 red lights indicating full charge when the vehicle is running. Also when you turn on the leveling system make sure the vehicle is running with the parking brake set. You should not be getting any LOW VOLTAGE warnings I think mine said 14.1 volts after the repair I just got done.

Your coach batteries are also charged by your converter, when connected to shore power. Thor uses WFCO WF-8900 power center, the converter takes 110 voltage and converts it to 13.6 DC volts.

The converter charges your coach batteries in 3 phases.

Phase 1 Absorption Mode (Normal Operation)

Phase 2 Bulk Mode (Charge Mode/Fast battery charge)

Phase 3 Float mode (Trickle charge/light or no load)

Thor also used the PRO XM1000 Inverter which takes DC voltage and changes it to 110 volts to power TV's and other small appliances when running off the coach batteries.

I've been looking up the manuals and investigating for the last few days in my spare time. I thought that was the Power Center model. Don't know the amp rating for the converter. They make a few. Can't find it listed anywhere.
Here is one example. WF-8945 | wfcoelectronics.com
States that it uses 3 different voltage settings.
I've never noticed mine to go over 14vdc as read on my Inverter remote panel unless the ICE/alternator providing power.

Trying to gather up all the facts about what it has and how it does it BEFORE spending money to 'improve' it.

Items I want to improve, or make sure they are working properly.
1. Converter charging the house batteries quickly and according to best practices for the type of batteries.
2. For the inverter to power the outlets I want to use while not using shore power/generator. Currently just powers a few.
3. Investigate fancy features such as AGS and possibly future LiFePo4 batteries. Or expand my battery tray from 2 group 27 wet cells to 4 group 27's.
4. Investigate solar beyond the 15w battery tender panel I have sitting in my front windshield.
5. One path was to possibly swap the current XM1000 inverter and use the inverter charger models (ex. Xantrex Freedom HF series) since they had more settings. Not sure this makes as much sense as just swapping the convertor.

I don't know the voltage requirements for each of the 4 lights, so I don't use them. Do you have any info?

I was considering wiring in a couple of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...A15H3UKRB6RHF9
One wired to see current flowing in and one to see flowing out. Wired in like the 4th pic in that amazon link.

I have ambitions of living for extended periods on a sailboat when my kids are grown. So this research kind of serves two purposes. This is my first RV. I've had it since Feb 2016. All modifications to date were to make easier for race track support.

The times the low voltage message came up (twice I think) parking brake was set and engine was idling. I pushed the gas pedal a little to rev it up to create a little more alternator power. Seemed to work. I just don't want any major leveler issues post warranty.
Chris

[MrZip]

Chris the main thing the tech. told me. DO NOT operate the leveling system if the display shows less then 13 volts.

[TurnOne]

I went out to the RV today to look at the power center. It's model WF-8955PEC.
WF-8955 | wfcoelectronics.com.
My house battery voltage was 12.2vdc. 11.9 vdc after starting the generator. Took a bit. When the generator started charging it very very briefly touched 14 then immediately dropped to 13.4vdc. I would say the converter is either not a 3 stage or it's not working properly.

[MrZip]

13.4 doesn't seem too bad. I looked the WFCO on your link above and it appears your converter is working as intended (click on the spec tab). What's the voltage read with just the engine running ? On your link above over 14 volts is for bulk charge (if battery is run down)

[TurnOne]

Originally Posted by MrZip

13.4 doesn't seem too bad. I looked the WFCO on your link above and it appears your converter is working as intended (click on the spec tab). What's the voltage read with just the engine running ? On your link above over 14 volts is for bulk charge (if battery is run down)

I can't find the set points for the 3 modes. But I can only assume that 12.0 volts before I start the generator would be more than sufficiently depleted to need the bulk charge. But maybe it thinks they are charged. I'll need to email dig harder to find the set points.

When the ICE is started, voltage goes to 14.4 volts as expected from the alternator. This happens whether the shore power/generator is running.

[Fireball]

I've been researching this for my new 29H. It appears the WFCO doesn't ever really want to go into bulk charge mode which usually results in significantly undercharged batteries. I'm probably going to upgrade my WFCO converter to a progressive dynamics converter that has 4 stages (adds an equalization stage). It also has a boost override option that you can force it into bulk charge when you need it.


4600 Series Upgrade or Replacement Power Converters

[CharlesinGA]

The charge/boost solenoid failure is a common failure item. I think many people carry a spare with them. I know the folks on the View/Navion forum on Yahoo recommend a spare, and also testing the voltages to make sure it is working. The original solenoid is apparently a piece of junk, with very poor quality contacts in it. The replacement recommended on the View/Navion forum is a much higher quality (but nearly identical looking) Cole-Hersee 24213 with 200 amp continuous duty contacts of silver tungsten rather than simple plain copper. The solenoid has an extra small terminal and makes the ground thru it rather than thru the body of the solenoid like the cheaper ones, so it requires a 6 inch or so pigtail from the terminal to one of the mounting bolts or a good ground.

The PD converter is a very good product and is a rather simple out and in install. I spent an afternoon doing it because I re-routed a couple of wires to make for a smoother routing and less wire clutter, but truthfully it can be done in a couple of hours if you have decent electrical tools.

Charles

[TurnOne]

I finally busted out my ammeter and it was warm the other day. I drained the batteries down to 11.8 VDC. Started the generator and saw over 40 amps for a short time, then started dropping and stayed around 20 for a bit. So it appears it does work as advertised. The voltage was low 13's.

I ran the A/C and every light/fan inside and out to generate the load for the generator.

Crank up the Ford V10 and the voltage goes to 14.3 VDC and seemed to charge about the same 20 amps. Don't quote me on the charge amps. But I think it was similar to the shore power/generator. I didn't drain the batteries again, just the one time before I started the test.

[bluepill]

WFCO are famous for not going into bulk mode when they should. In 2 years I have NEVER seen my charge voltage above 13.6, even when I discharge to 50%. I always top off my batteries with a dedicated battery charger that gives 14.4 vots for a decent charge.