Community Forums

Montana170 · 02-11-2018, 08:05 PM

The difference in the curb weight between the cutaway E350 and E450 is about 225lb not the 2000 lb stated previously. The difference in GVWR is 2000 lb. So for a 225lb weight penalty you get a lot more GVWR. Folks, do your own research. Advice on the internet is fraught with error.

Capt Steve · 02-12-2018, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montana170

The difference in the curb weight between the cutaway E350 and E450 is about 225lb not the 2000 lb stated previously. The difference in GVWR is 2000 lb. So for a 225lb weight penalty you get a lot more GVWR. Folks, do your own research. Advice on the internet is fraught with error.

Yes, your post is fraught with error...

The curb weight of the chassis' are as you noted several hundred pounds apart but we are not discussing bare chassis here. The discussion is about motorhomes. An E-350 motorhome with a 2012 or newer chassis will have a GVWR of 12,500 vs the E-450 at 14,500# and that my friend is an additional ton.

The resulting CCC ratings will vary widely depending on the manufacturer and yes the 450 will typically have a higher CCC "IF" it is less than 30'. Payload on E-450's starts shrinking quickly as the length increases. The longer the 450 Class C the closer most folks get to maxing out their CCC as they often don't have much to start with.

My 2012 Nexus 24' E-350 {a 2011 chassis that has a GVWR of 11,500} has a very ample of payload {CCC} of 3,363# as our coach is very well built, and frankly, like many, we use most of it.

Montana170 · 02-12-2018, 02:04 PM

Then we shall just fraught on.

You said "For example, yes the brakes are slightly larger on the 450 but they need to be as it is 2,000# heavier than the 350. The payload will be higher on the 450... again, it better be as they weigh 2,000# more than the 350"

The 450 chassis weighs 225lbs more than the 350, that is correct, is it not? The 1775 lb difference is at the discretion of the operator.

You are right though, people do tend to really load these things up. I have seen many a class C motorhome with a large rear overhang riding very low at the rear. I think Ford specifies something like 32% of the total loaded weight of the motorhome needs to be on the front axle, I wonder how often that happens in the real world. Can you imagine if the State started to do inspections on our rigs like they do commercial vehicles? ouch.

Capt Steve · 02-12-2018, 07:09 PM

"The 450 chassis weighs 225lbs more than the 350, that is correct, is it not? The 1775 lb difference is at the discretion of the operator."

Correct perhaps, but totally irrelevant... Like I said we are not discussing bare bones chassis'. If you want to have an intelligent discussion of Class C's I suggest we use GVWR as an apples to apples benchmark for purposes of comparison/contrast.

Dry weights are a joke and the weight of a chassis before the coach is added is meaningless. Every builder utilizes different construction techniques and materials and the resulting weights vary widely.

What the "operator" chooses to purchase is at his discretion but the fact remains that a fully loaded 350 will weigh in at 2,000# less than a fully loaded 450. If you have two identical Class C's {one with a 350 and the other a 450} the 450 will have the same engine and trans to move that extra 2,000# as the 350...correct, is it not?

If I was running heavy on a regular basis and/or towing heavy in a Class C larger than 25' I would opt for the 450 but my point was {and is} that in a 25' or less Class C the 450 would be for many, overkill with no particular advantage vs the 350. The 450 comes with a stiffer/harsher ride along with reduced mileage which has no particular advantage.

As always.... opinions and YMMV.

LOG · 02-12-2018, 10:33 PM

For what it is worth, if any, the 2018 Nexus Phantom 25P which is 24" 11" in length comes with a Ford E450 chassis.

Jackhal19 · 02-13-2018, 07:30 AM

I have a Coachmen Leprechaun 260DS with the E450 / 6 speed trans. It has 7500 towing capacity and more CCC, the 450 would give you better CCC and more torque go with the 450.

Mich F · 02-13-2018, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOG

For what it is worth, if any, the 2018 Nexus Phantom 25P which is 24" 11" in length comes with a Ford E450 chassis.

The E350 was the standard chassis for the 25P, but I believe the E450 was an available option. That's what a salesman at one of their company dealerships told me a few of years ago. In their specs for the new 25P, it says they're on an E350, but they they give the E450's 14,500# GVWR. I assume the E350 listing is just an error.

Capt Steve · 02-13-2018, 10:40 AM

"the 450 would give you better CCC and more torque go with the 450."

Not necessarily and nope...

The max torque of the V-10 found on the E-350/450 is 420# at 3,250 RPM. Max HP is 305 at 4,250 RPM. You do not get more torque or hp with the 450 - just more GVWR which some folks need/like.

Just about every coach is different so find what works for you and enjoy!

OLYLEN · 02-16-2018, 08:47 AM

Capt Steve, we realize you like your E350, but many of us like the E450 better. The E450 gives the edge with pulling, IE; the rear end ratio, with the ability to carry more and stopping power, plus new has the 6 speed trans. If were me ordering I would go with the ability to have more options, but I also would go just a bit longer to get the walk around bed.

LEN

nothermark · 02-16-2018, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLYLEN

Capt Steve, we realize you like your E350, but many of us like the E450 better. The E450 gives the edge with pulling, IE; the rear end ratio, with the ability to carry more and stopping power, plus new has the 6 speed trans. If were me ordering I would go with the ability to have more options, but I also would go just a bit longer to get the walk around bed.

LEN

You will also take a hit on fuel economy with the E450 lower rear end ratio.

It's all tradeoffs. If you are towing a 5000 lb towed with a load of tools and stuff in your 30 Ft unit you need more chassis and weight capacity than the 25 footer with a 3000 lbs towed and two lawn chairs who will do 3 mpg better with an E350.
The interesting deal changer is the short E450 that has a high tow capacity evidently aimed at the folks stuffing 4 or 5 people in the MH and towing a minivan that weighs more than 5000 lbs. That is if they can make it work at all.

Capt Steve · 02-16-2018, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nothermark

You will also take a hit on fuel economy with the E450 lower rear end ratio.

It's all tradeoffs. If you are towing a 5000 lb towed with a load of tools and stuff in your 30 Ft unit you need more chassis and weight capacity than the 25 footer with a 3000 lbs towed and two lawn chairs who will do 3 mpg better with an E350.
The interesting deal changer is the short E450 that has a high tow capacity evidently aimed at the folks stuffing 4 or 5 people in the MH and towing a minivan that weighs more than 5000 lbs. That is if they can make it work at all.

Well said... My point throughout this thread and others is that the 450 is "not necessarily" the best choice in a small Class C. A 350 fully loaded to GVWR will have more power, better mileage, ride and handling than a 450 also fully loaded. The extra ton still has to be moved {and stopped} by the same engine and trans and the lower differential does not add any hp or torque.

If you need the extra GVWR, by all means, have at it, like I said, find what works for you and enjoy.

Montana170 · 02-18-2018, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackhal19

I have a Coachmen Leprechaun 260DS with the E450 / 6 speed trans. It has 7500 towing capacity and more CCC, the 450 would give you better CCC and more torque go with the 450.

You are correct, the 350 has a 4.10 diff and the 450 has a 4.56 so the 450 does give you more torque at the rear wheels where it counts.

Always stir the pot.
http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=34204

Mich F · 02-18-2018, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montana170

Always stir the pot.
http://www.irv2.com/photopost/showfull.php?photo=34204

Gross

Capt Steve · 02-20-2018, 07:59 AM

[Mod Edit]
Going all the way back to post #9 {and several subsequent posts} I responded with my opinion, based on a number of facts, as to why an E-450 is "Not Necessarily" a better choice in a Class C that is LESS than 25'.

I also noted "Opinions and YMMV" more than once. I like the E-450, I love the new 6-speed transmission but refuse to buy into the notion that everyone needs that much chassis in a 24' Class C. If you want to drink the Kool-Aid have at it. Not sure why this opinion offends so many but opinions are what these Forums are all about.

For a prospective buyer, this thread has provided a lot of valuable information for both pro and con on the E-350 vs E-450 debate. Feel free, as many do, to disagree with me but personal attacks...seriously? I'm happy to admit that it is entirely possible that I am completely wrong but after 4.5+ years and 42,000+ trouble free, smooth riding, reasonably economical miles in our well built quality coach... I really don't think so.

In the end, a wise prospective purchase will come down to how you are going to actually use the new coach the most and making an informed selection based on those parameters. This always has and presumably will, continue to work for me.

If you get as bored as I am with this discussion go over to the towing Forum and recommend a 3/4 ton truck to tow a 20' TT... you will have a lot of fun.