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Old 09-07-2014, 08:54 AM   #71
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Gas or Diesel ... which is best?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Think most of us can agree........if you bought any RV to save money...........you made a BIG mistake or you do not know how to count.


I like RV's and the whole travel life style but they do not save money.................

I do know the Sprinter cost more up front........it gets 11-16 MPG
My Ford V10 got 4-8 MPG.
So I spent more up front to save some at the pump, have a smaller house, but is far better handling chassis.
Maybe I will make some $$$$ back on the trade in some day ?????

Then there is the diesel power on hills and pulling power in any size and chassis. Nobody ever says gas engine pull hills or pull loads ..........they just say I made the hill with my foot on the floor and some much slower speed.
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Old 09-07-2014, 09:33 AM   #72
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I look forward to this discussion in the future when it is hybrid vs non hybrid. I think it will be quite similar.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:36 AM   #73
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Gas or Diesel ... which is best?

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I look forward to this discussion in the future when it is hybrid vs non hybrid. I think it will be quite similar.

Yup.........told my wife I need a motorcycle................and we are going to save all sorts of money on gas so you can buy jewelry


But it sure is fun.......so I bought 6 more to have more fun than ever..............still no jewels.
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Old 09-07-2014, 03:03 PM   #74
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Thanks to all who posted. Clearly there's lots to consider. Will be attending the Hershey show later this week and look forward to seeing what's out there. Safe travels to all!
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Old 09-07-2014, 03:21 PM   #75
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I'm not convinced on that one. I do a lot of travelling by SUV for business.

If I'm trying to get somewhere I do ~700 miles a day. Using $0.50 / mile for gas in my motorhome that's ~$350 / day in gas. My V8 SUV costs ~$0.20 / mile in gas, 700 miles would be $140 / day. That's a difference of ~$190 / day in just gas. If I'm going to say Florida, that's 1,400+ miles each way, so 4 x ~$190 or ~$760 difference in just gas.

With a $70 / day difference between CG & motel a 14 trip (12 nights away from home) would be a $840 spread, so now the m/h is up $80.

If you allow even $100 / day (free brekkie at motel and 2x lunch + dinner for 2 people) that's another $700. Now the m/h is up $780, even if you did this 4 x a year that's still only a little over $3k a year.

I find it hard to believe that a possible $3k / year versus the cost of a "under $100,000 list" motorhome is really comparable.

We do more like 200 to 300 mi/day. No hurry as we are retired. Decent motels in the NE are running $100/night or more. There is no comparison worth figuring on cooking in vs eating out. We manage to sleep free or cheap 1 or 2 nights out of 3 between PA, parks and Walmart. We also get food we like, a clean bed, room for stuff and no hassle with our furry friend. When we look at the cost for a trip it always seems to come out that we would not do better in a motel. The folks I know who sweat the pennies in their spread sheet can give you better details but that is the back of the envelope version.

What is expensive is traveling, period. It's more of a matter of how one wants to apportion the money. Motels or fuel. ;-)
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Old 09-07-2014, 05:45 PM   #76
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I want to reply publicly to a PM I received.

I am NOT saying diesels are a bad choice, or that for SOME people they aren't a good choice. I was just trying to point out that for the VAST majority of people buying a motorhome, the concept that a diesel is the BEST choice is pure "road apples".

Sorry, but spouting BS 'salesman sermon' and duping folks out of their hard earned money just rubs me the wrong way.

You will see me object to such BS / misinformation on a variety of subjects, not just diesel vs gas.
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Old 09-08-2014, 10:49 AM   #77
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Over 2,000 Gas vs Diesel treads HERE to read.
Enjoy

For your 1st RV gas will probably work.
Just don't take a diesel for a test drive.
/the biggest advantage to diesel is the fact that the engine just about idles all the time. Less than 2500 RPM , with 2100 being about average. Also gas is a cleaning agent and Diesel is a lubricant. Engines do so much better. Change the amount of load, and fuel economy barely , if at all, changes. Larger engines have more power for hills, but machines like the Sprinter with a small engine, have plenty of power if your are not trying to accelerate up hill. The sprinter pretty consistently gets 20 M/Gal For more power, Ford has some good units. For direct money comparisons between gas and diesel, you need to calculate miles per dollar not miles per gallon. for example, My VW TDI Passat, car, gets 10.5 miles per dollar when gas is $4.00 a gallon.

Personally, I only bought a gas gusller because the price was too good to pass up.
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Old 09-08-2014, 12:08 PM   #78
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Think most of us can agree........if you bought any RV to save money...........you made a BIG mistake or you do not know how to count.


I like RV's and the whole travel life style but they do not save money.................

Then there is the diesel power on hills and pulling power in any size and chassis. Nobody ever says gas engine pull hills or pull loads ..........they just say I made the hill with my foot on the floor and some much slower speed.
I agree w/ most of what you have here, but I can't agree w/ the foot to the floor comparison.

Couple of caveats to my observation; I'm nowhere NEAR overloaded in my rig and I don't pull a toad. However, the Ford V10 has a GCVWR of 22000 pounds; I might be lucky if I'm around 13500 or 13750. Yah, it downshifts going up a hill (depends on the hill), but it has no problem getting me there. I never have had to 'mash' the pedal and pray. Within its limits, the Ford V10 is quite capable and I have not found it wanting in any way.

For the amount of miles I drive my rig and the amount of times I use my rig, diesel was never in the equation for me. I'm sure they're nice and all, but I just don't need one.
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Old 09-08-2014, 05:36 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by shippwreck View Post
For direct money comparisons between gas and diesel, you need to calculate miles per dollar not miles per gallon. for example, My VW TDI Passat, car, gets 10.5 miles per dollar when gas is $4.00 a gallon.



Personally, I only bought a gas gusller because the price was too good to pass up.

The thread is about 25' Class C's though, not Passat's.

But I'm glad you at touched on the fact that in the case of your RV you chose gas over diesel because of cost.
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Old 09-08-2014, 06:30 PM   #80
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I'm surprised that after all these posts no one has introduced the bio-diesel factor into the discussion. More and more states are starting to legislate ever increasing bio-blends into the equation and yet most of the smaller RV Diesel engines limit their warranty coverage to 5% or less bio-blend. What happens when your "travel" RV is unable to travel through various states where only B10-B20 fuels are available?
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Old 09-08-2014, 10:20 PM   #81
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I'm surprised that after all these posts no one has introduced the bio-diesel factor into the discussion. More and more states are starting to legislate ever increasing bio-blends into the equation and yet most of the smaller RV Diesel engines limit their warranty coverage to 5% or less bio-blend. What happens when your "travel" RV is unable to travel through various states where only B10-B20 fuels are available?
That is a recent wrinkle that no one has really worked out yet. All of the European diesel manufacturers specify a maximum of B5 biodiesel but a few states, notably Illinois, have mandated higher levels up to B20. While this technically voids warranty coverage no claim has been refused on this basis AFAIK since such an action might force a manufacturer to stop selling their vehicles in affected states and they don't want that to happen, so the best option so far for the manufacturers has been to simply not enforce the warranty restriction so as not to press the issue and trigger an outcome they don't want. Where that leaves the customer is unclear. So far warranties have not been affected but this appears to be by unwritten agreement by the manufacturers.

I don't think anyone really knows what effect B20 will really have over the long term in these engines since there the situation is relatively new. But something's got to give and given the stranglehold the biodiesel (big agriculture) lobby has in Congress it doesn't seem that it will be the biodiesel mandate, so manufacturers will either have to either stop selling vehicles in certain states or design their engines to accommodate B20. It seems most likely they will do the latter but... stay tuned.
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Old 09-08-2014, 10:29 PM   #82
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Diesel vs Gas

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It is really very easy. If you want the best and most reliable driving experience get the diesel. If you want the most cost-effective approach get the gas. Diesel has many benefits but costs more. Simple.
Personally, I like what Marc says. There's something manly about rolling down the road with that quiet rumble, 40+ feet back...

However, the rule of thumb is that regular users should have diesel; RVers who use their rigs infrequently should lean to gas.
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Old 09-09-2014, 01:38 AM   #83
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I don't think anyone really knows what effect B20 will really have over the long term in these engines since there the situation is relatively new. But something's got to give and given the stranglehold the biodiesel (big agriculture) lobby has in Congress it doesn't seem that it will be the biodiesel mandate, so manufacturers will either have to either stop selling vehicles in certain states or design their engines to accommodate B20. It seems most likely they will do the latter but... stay tuned.
The engines are not the problem (Dr. Diesels original engine ran on peanut oil AFAIK) it's the plastic in the fuel system that can be attacked if it's the wrong sort.

As for no-one knows, ask the Germans they have been using it for decades.
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Old 09-09-2014, 10:01 AM   #84
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It's not really plastic or seals but rather (per Mercedes) issues to do with the formation of deposits (since biodiesel doesn't evaporate/vaporize as easily as pure petro diesel) in the crankcase, injectors, fuel pump, and filter. Also during DPF purges extra fuel is injected (so it can be heated by the catalyst and increase the temperature in the DPF) and with biodiesel some of this extra fuel can condense and get into the crankcase rather than stay suspended on its way to the cat. Mercedes' recommendations when using B20 biodiesel is to not let the vehicle sit for extended periods and watch the oil level to ensure that it doesn't rise.

Whether any of this really happens or is really a problem or not who knows (Euro manufactures love to freak out about this stuff), but that's what Mercedes says FWIW. I don't know whether there really is a concern or not but if you believe Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and VW (and Kenworth, and Freightliner, and several American manufacturers as well) then you won't use more than 5% biodiesel not matter who makes your engine or what they say might be OK. But again, whether the concerns are really valid or the result of over-caution I can't say. I would guess it's less of an issue for those who put the fuel in their tank and burn it right away vs. let it sit for months at a time.
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