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Old 10-05-2012, 01:04 PM   #29
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I suspect they didn't want to mess with the factory sound-proofing / noise-deadening products and or floor coverings for fear there'd be warranty issues later on.

AKA the Mexican Warranty Stand-off. He did it, no he did it, no, he did it.
I know, I had quiet a discussion with both Ford and Winnebago. Thay was really the only complaint we ever had with the Winnie.

On the heat issue, it was nothing but finger pointing.....I finally said, shoot (or something sort of like that) and took about 5 hours to fix it one Saturday morning. hardest thing was getting out the seats and pulling up the old carpet. It was glued directly to the floor pan.

Ken
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:09 PM   #30
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A quick comment - my previous profession.
Wikipedia is incorrect.
Virginia, for one, specifically states it is against the law
to drive barefoot and the Officer can also use that fact
in justifying issuing Reckless Driving tickets, usually in accident cases.

Back to our regularly scheduled program.
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:09 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldme View Post
A quick comment - my previous profession.
Wikipedia is incorrect.
Virginia, for one, specifically states it is against the law
to drive barefoot and the Officer can also use that fact
in justifying issuing Reckless Driving tickets, usually in accident cases.

Back to our regularly scheduled program.
While it may be illegal..had I not been barefoot when my throttle spring broke last year, I may have slammed a car in the rear. I was able to wrap my toes over the top of the tredal and pull it back to idle. I was able to drive like that till I could pull over and fix it.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:33 PM   #32
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Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware,Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming: Barefoot Driving: Operation of a motor vehicle by a driver with bare feet is permitted.

...
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:22 PM   #33
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It's not illegal in any of the 50 states or any of the other American territories to drive barefoot.

From the below linked Virginia DMV website page; "While wearing certain types of footwear while driving or driving barefoot is not illegal, vehicle control can be compromised, and it is not recommended."

Commonwealth of Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:33 AM   #34
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Although statutes change on a yearly basis, it was in stated
as such previously and still can be used by the officer.

Most of the the New Va. Code Section 46.2-582 to 46.2-868
gives specific reasons for reckless driving.

When a statute states:
"in a manner so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person shall be guilty of reckless driving in Virginia", then the Judge will decide if something needs to be specific or not. This can vary form jurisdiction to jurisdiction, as Judges are given the right to use their discretion in cases.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:45 AM   #35
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Murf2u,
I see you are debating contents from the Driver’s Training Handbook from Va., which is issued by DMV.

That is not a legal document only a driver’s training guide.
Once a person can pass a written test (from this guide), then a short on the road test they are deemed successful in passing the very minimum requirements to be a legal driver in the Commonwealth of Va.

If you want to know the laws of Va. AKA Vehicle Traffic Code Sections, you will need to buy the volumes of Va. Code and spend a lot of time reading them.

You will find that you can also run into Judicial Interpretation (the letter of the Law vs. the Intent of the Law) as well as Judicial Discretion (the leeway that is given to apply weight to any area of testimony or observations), by both the Officer and the Judge. This will very between states and jurisdictions within the same state.

Maybe in Canada Judges and Officers are not given that latitude.

Here in the USA, forty-nine of the fifty States base their Law on
English Common Law. That makes the process all similar, but still not the same. The one different State is Louisiana, as their Laws are based on Napoleonic Code, that is totally different.

One final thought, in high School I know a number of people that received “barefoot tickets” and were convicted. Later while spending 25+ years in Va. Law Enforcement, I know a number of Officers that wrote tickets and Judges that convicted people for driving barefoot. Most were reckless driving tickets that were reduced to careless driving (a Judge’s discretionary offence). As I stated previously in another reply, Reckless driving is anything that is deemed operation of a vehicle "in a manner so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person shall be guilty of reckless driving in Virginia", per Va. Code. The Judge is allowed to reduce to offense to Careless Driving.

Some jurisdictions will allow the Officer to issue Careless Driving tickets. One Jurisdiction I worked in the Judge would not allow an Officer to issue such a ticket and would immediately dismiss it, without hearing it.

I decided to utilize my Officer’s discretion and not issue such
“barefoot” tickets.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:52 AM   #36
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DMV is a governmet identity.Instructions booklets distributed by a government agency
ought to be and are in fact based on law of that agencys jurisdiction(state)
In fact if a cop wrote A TICKET FOR BARE FOOT DRIVING this cop was in violation of that states law.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:09 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldme View Post
A quick comment - my previous profession.
Wikipedia is incorrect.
Virginia, for one, specifically states it is against the law
to drive barefoot and the Officer can also use that fact
in justifying issuing Reckless Driving tickets, usually in accident cases.

Back to our regularly scheduled program.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldme View Post
Although statutes change on a yearly basis, it was in stated
as such previously and still can be used by the officer.

Most of the the New Va. Code Section 46.2-582 to 46.2-868
gives specific reasons for reckless driving.

When a statute states:
"in a manner so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person shall be guilty of reckless driving in Virginia", then the Judge will decide if something needs to be specific or not. This can vary form jurisdiction to jurisdiction, as Judges are given the right to use their discretion in cases.
Ok, now the story's changed.

At first you said "Virginia, for one, specifically states it is against the law
to drive barefoot...".

Then you said "...the Judge will decide if something needs to be specific or not...".

So then can you point to the section of the Statute that specifically says driving "barefoot" is against the law?

Just because someone got a ticket and was dumb enough to cop a plea instead of fighting it does not mean it's the law, it means they were convicted.

The reason I say this is for instance, a female friend of mine was just so charged a few years back, but in Florida, not VA. The facts were, they were on vacation, her DH had one (or 2) too many and she was driving them back to the hotel in a rented car. She had dressed up to go out for the night including high heel shoes. The Sheriff's Deputy saw the rental coming out of a popular bar and decided 2 + 2 equaled a drunk tourist so stopped them for a roadside sobriety check. The DH got a little argumentative and the Deputy charged her for being barefoot despite her explanation that she was unable to drive in her heels so had slipped them off.

She plead not guilty and actually returned to FL for the trial. The judge sternly admonished the Deputy for "grossly over-reaching" in charging her with reckless driving and ordered the husband be paid "witness fees" all the way from Canada in some form of apology.

Ditto, in the absence of some incident, accident or evidence of what could be described as "...endanger the life, limb, or property of any person..." I'd say that was indeed "grossly over-reaching" to charge with reckless.

What's next? Tickets for high heels? Tight skirts? Shag rug in a m/h?
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:33 AM   #38
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rerepairnut.
You have a good point on what SHOULD be expected but that is not always true.

DMV does not make any laws or enforce traffic laws in Va.. They are basically a recording agency to track vehicle registrations, sell license plates and track operator licensees. They do run the testing facilities.

Also each city or county is allowed to make laws / ordinances as they see fit.
The officer was NOT in violation of state law. There is a difference also between what is "based upon law" and what is Law. Law is what the Code Books say.

Also re-read my earlier post regarding Judicial Interpretation (the letter of the Law vs. the Intent of the Law) as well as Judicial Discretion. That gets strange even for the Officers who enforce the Codes. As one Judge's interpretation will be different from another Judge's interpretation on the same Code section.

The Code section that says " in a manner so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person shall be guilty of reckless driving in Virginia" basically covers anything the Officer feels was done that endangered life or property. It is up to the Judge to agree or disagree with the Officer. That is the job of each.

Murf2
Nothing in my statement changed. When I worked the streets for 25 years those tickets were legally written and on the books.
The legislature changes laws every year. It may be back next year or you may be able to go to a beach community and find it to be a specific city ordeance now.

Canada may be very different from Va. or anywhere else in the USA.

Yes the Code sections do list specifics for reckless driving. With different fines for each specific offense.

also


Yes the Judge has latitude to convict on his discretion for things NOT listed.
A long time ago Va. decided it was unrealistic to list everything that a person could do that could endanger someone's life or property. Again that is what the Code says " in a manner so as to endanger the life, limb, or property of any person shall be guilty of reckless driving in Virginia" .

Ref. your friend in Fl...A simple case of Officer digression as to what he believed to be an endangerment Vs. Judge's digression as to what he believed to be an endangerment.

Nothing new there. Again, it is up to the Judge to agree or disagree with the Officer based on the situation as presented in court. That is the job of each.

You said "What's next".
You would be surprised at some laws that are on the books nationwide.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:19 AM   #39
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Back to the question concerning Heat coming up from the Floor and Dog House.

We had a1990 Southwind Class A that had a lot of Heat and Noise coming through the Uninsulated sides and top of the Dog House.

I tried several different insulating Pads over the 8 Years We owned the Vehicle. All worked to some degree . The Solution that worked best in Our case was to construct an Inner Cover using Sheet Metal and insulating between it and the Fiberglas Dog House.

The Sides of the DH were a bit complicated to secure as there wasn't much material to screw the metal to. The Main "Lid" was as easy to form as a Baking Sheet!
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:39 AM   #40
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RobRV,
That sounds like the perfect solution.
Making an inner cover of metal to reflect heat and backed by insulation.
Great idea.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:01 AM   #41
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I believe it's against the law to drive bare foot isn't it?
That is a common belief, In fact it is so common that back when Mobile did their annual "Economy run" where different cars competed for best MPG, they gave the drivers a right shoe that had on sole. (That way they appeared to have shoes on even if they were driving barefoot)

Fact is... In the states where I have checked the law, no such law exists.. It is 100% legal to drive barefoot.

WARNING: Laws vary from state to state, hey phrase is "States where I have checked"

Warning #2: Not all police know the law and may well buy the myth.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:24 PM   #42
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A few years ago, my brother and I (some say foolishly) decided to build ourselves a good, old fashioned hot rod... you guys know the kind, big motor and not much else.

As much as we were trying to keep weight at a minimum, the idea of a Flintstone-mobile, with no floor, seemed just a little dangerous. Despite Fred's and Barney's documented practice of using their feet as brakes, we thought our modern man type feet weren't up to the task... and besides, neither one of us wanted to fall out, through the bottom of the car!

But, I digress... we installed a sheetmetal floor and transmission tunnel. It was after our first drive, we discovered the headers, directly beneath the floor, actually did a fairly decent job of turning it into a skillet... even through our shoes, the heat was unbearable.

We solved the problem with "heat wrap", a product that looks a bit like one of the Ace bandages, with which you wrap your sprained ankle. We wrapped it around the headers, lo and behold, no more heat problem.

This stuff keeps the heat in the exhaust system, preventing it from radiating into the surrounding areas. As a side benefit, it actually can improve performance, very slightly, by maintaining exhaust velocity, which improves scavenging.

If the problem with heat radiating through the dog house and floor of motorhomes can be traced to the exhaust system, wrapping the system with heat wrap may be the simple solution.

My concern with insulating the dog house is, that by trapping all that heat in there, over time, "heat soak" may become an issue, which could potentially affect electronics and/or other "perishable" parts, such as rubber seals, plastic bits and pieces, and "stuff".

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth...
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