RV industry (still) not catching up on quality issues

[Alan Wilson]

Originally Posted by EndeavorV10

I agree we all have our favorites, I wouldn't touch a Mopar, my brother keeps buying them and every one of them ends up in the shop. What can ya do right. I saw a monster E550 based super C today with a powerstroke, damn thing sounded awesome and moved out like like it was pulling nothing.

I would take issue with you on the Mopar, LOL and you knew someone would! I had a company that required many vehicles and we had them all and they all spent pretty much equal time in the shop for various reasons and each had their weak point. Ford the engine and the injectors and an occasional transmission, Mopar mostly the transmission in the earlier 2k and GM the engine in general. The Cummins, with a radiator hose leak, had by far the least problems of all the big three engines and we tested them all to the limits. These trucks were abused from driving in 4x4 on extremely rough terrain at construction sites, through mud, ruts, snow and also towing for hours on end over the road at or near capacity so they all had steering and suspension issues within the first 60k. We opted in the end to start replacing them all with the Dodge as Dodge came out with the lowest cost per mile to operate and maintain. Out of 30 Dodge we had five transmissions failed. Three from the tech not re-attaching the transmission oil line after flushing it from service making the tranny a large boat anchor within 5 blocks. All three were replaced by the various dealers that caused the problems. The other two were from abuse and lack of maintenance as the assigned, now unemployed, drivers simply did not care. Gm had no tranny failures other than being stuck and trying to get out the computer shuts you down leaving you stranded. Not cool. Ford would have to warm up forever, when it started, in the winter before it could move. For my personal pickup I now drive a Dodge but I prefer the ride of GM. Like all things we own we drive what we like best. I wish I could get one of the new ones as they are awesome tow rigs and are much more comfortable than the one I have now. All in all the big three are the big three because they are all great in their right and deserve to be.

[Midniteoyl]

Mopar baby!

[Davinger]

Originally Posted by Midniteoyl

Mopar baby!

Ford Rules!

[Maddawgs]

Originally Posted by B4jsp

By the looks of your replies you all did get my point. And I totally agree with the fact that RV'ing is a different life style. I camped all my live, am with the Boy-scouts for the last 8 years, and there is nothing better than waking up under the stars.

I am just so disappointed by 'the American product'. The Japanese solved these issues 25 years ago. My 16 year old 200000+ miles Camry does not have any rust and never had any mayor repairs. Sure I needed a new radiator once, change my oil faithfully etc.

The issues we have with RV are easy issues. Let's look at the foot long spot of rust I mentioned earlier when I looked at this new trailer. It was easily detectable that just one layer of paint is the main cause of the rust. Instead of putting one layer of paint give it a primer layer and than a good top coating. Is that too costly? Nah.. it all about delivering cheap and making sure you need another one soon.

So to all who are considering an RV... do yourself a favor and stay away.

Read the blog (Why you should not buy an RV) I mentioned earlier in my initial post. I wish I had before I bought.

You can slam American quality and tout Japanese quality all you like but here is one thing you may not know. After the war the Japanese lost. It was America who showed Japan how to build quality in to their products so they could rebuild their economy (this was taught in grade school in the 60's). Also that 16 year old Camry of yours was built much better than the Camry's of just a few years ago and just a few years ago Toyota had almost the worst safety (remember the recalls?). The American built cars of 16 years ago were also built much better.
As for RV quality well you get what you pay for. If you buy a lower end or entry level RV (or anything) then the quality will not be as good as the higher end or top level. Basically you get what you pay for.
Todd

[gauto5150]

That blog is a load of crap. RVs require maintenance, just like a car. But we're talking about a house on wheels. How many home owners do ZERO maintenance and never have any trouble.
And the mention of surface rust on the frame? We're not talking about ROT people, surface rust. It has no ill effect on the integrity of the frame. If you're looking for an RV with a frame with a show car finish, get under there and paint it up.
That whole blog is 90% whining since the blogger had a bad experience. RVs aren't for everyone, you have to be a little mechanically inclined.

[bdpreece]

Originally Posted by George Schweikle

SNIP

If we weren't so caught up in the "model change" mentality, maybe the quality you speak of could be improved. Or, the cost reduction "experts" would have more time to pick over the products...

Maybe it is just me but I would think the model change mentality is more the manufacturer than the consumer. Case in point is the shape of the new Monaco products. I read more threads where those of us who have the old Monaco products think the new ones look nowhere as good and many are saying they won't buy one for that reason.

[Maddawgs]

Originally Posted by B4jsp

I have been driving an RV for 5 years now and as quality is an overall issue on the RV's I wondered if the RV industry made some improvements.
My RV Winnebago 2001 on a Ford E450 has many quality related issues. The one thing that's sticks out is RUST. Rust is everywhere; any part of the RV that is made from metal is totally rusted and makes the vehicle look old and dilapidated in less than 5 years. This and many other issues can be read in this blog: Why you should not buy an RV that I found the other day.
So we are now 5 years later and we just went thru a big financial crisis where especially this industry got hit hard. Many RV makers went belly up and I was hoping that lessons learned would put this industry in a different thinking mode, ie "Let's see if we can make them better and customers might come back".
Nothing is further from the truth. I went to an RV dealer and looked at the 2012 Gulf Stream VISA 23RBK. The one thing that I noticed immediately is that the formaldehyde scare after Katrina got their attention (Why you should not buy an RV) and this trailer had a certification in low VOC.
So that's good, however one dip under the trailer revealed a rusted area of over a foot long on the frame. Knowing that this trailer had not driven one mile and spend it's entire live in the showroom you and I know what this means once you own the vehicle. Rust, rust and more rust. So looking more closely at the vehicle and comparing the other issues I have with my RV I must report that nothing has changed.
So the conclusion is still: Stay away from buying an RV and either rent or take a vacation in an expensive hotel. Because owning an RV and paying for its yearly maintenance is easily going to top your expensive hotel trip bill by far and that hotel trip will not give you headaches throughout the rest of the year.

I have come up with a new term for posters like this "BOMBERS". They sign up on a forum just to post something that is designed to get forum members to argue back and forth so they can sit back and laugh. This BOMBER signs up, posts this crap about poor American Quality vs great Japanese quality, references a blog that is A) more crap and B) probably his blog. I doubt he has even been in an RV, or "driven one for 5 years". Sorry for the rant but if you are going to start a fire at least hang around to feel the heat. Any response there BOMBER ?
Todd

[Midniteoyl]

The blog IS his... he's spamming

[Davdeb1]

Sounds to me like he wrote this"why not to buy an RV", book, blog, pamphlet, whatever. The RV I purchased is a good example of RV quality as far as I am concerned. It's 12 years hold, runs great, everything works, nothing leaks. I am going to live in it next year.

Of course most of these entry level RV's are not made with the best materials or quality. The average purchaser, if they are really going to get a lot of use out of their unit, they will use it 10 times a year for about 5-7 years. They are built more than well enough for this purpose. Someone stated that they have a 1989 Foretravel, that is in perfect condition now. How many people can afford what that unit cost new?

If someone pays 100k for a new class A, I'm sure they would not expect the quality of a 300k unit. It sound like this person feels that the 100k unit should be of a lot higher quality than it is. Believe me, if the Japanese or Koreans though they could build a higher quality RV for less money than we do, they would be doing it. I feel that the average RV buyer is a lot more knowledgeable than the average car buyer.

[Davdeb1]

I read this "blog" and the author is an idiot. When you decide to write something like this, you should at least have some idea of what you are talking about.

The statement, "90% of Monaco owners return to the dealer with problems in the first 6 months. OF COURSE THEY DO! I would venture to say 90% of all new RV owners do the same. How could anyone try and compare these units to cars when they are so much more complex.

Sorry for the idiot comment, I meant to say MORON!

[Kathryn]

Originally Posted by Shadowcatche

My background is in nondestructive testing an quality control and I have worked on everything from the space shuttle to carnival rides and a stint in a steel mill producing for the big three.
When we decided we wanted a trailer and true to my QC background I stared with studying what fails, starting with restorations and the conclusions were in order of importance rot and rust.
Our trailer is custom built and has an all aluminum frame and what wood there is, is minimal and good quality well protected. I selected the components that went into fitting it out and in most cases sent them to the manufacture. Marine LED lights, Bullfinch shower and gas points I imported from the UK solar mounts I found and imported from the manufacturer in China.
There are manufacturers that make a quality products but you need to be involved in searching them out and being prepared to dig into processes. If it is a steel frame how are they protecting or not protecting it. EU trailer frames are often galvanized, horse trailers in the US are mostly aluminum. I have never heard of quality complaints concerning Airstream trailers, though I am sure there likely are.

Your post is a little misleading, to say the least. You fail to mention that your trailer is an 11' (yes that is eleven feet) MegaMini Teardrop. I think they are adorable, and great in their own right - but there is absolutely NO WAY a regular RV manufacturer can allow you to be involved in the manufacturing process or buy and supply special items for install and have even a faint hope of remaining competitive. Sure, go put down a $$million or so at Foretravel or Newell, and you can select almost everything - but they STILL make the chassis and body with their own specs.

Do we need some changes? Yes. Are they going to happen? I doubt it. The market is always driven by the consumer, and they generally want something that looks good and costs less. Especially with a slow economy, they would rather get out there in a cheap unit than not be able to afford to get out there at all. After all, most of them will have moved on before the problems get serious.

I think it comes down to those owners who care, making the effort on their own - buying better quality units (read "more expensive") - and probably keeping their units for much longer.

Kathryn

[Davinger]

Ok let me sum it up. When you buy a Ferrari or a Lamborghini you don't care that a two hour ride in that thing will cause you to hurt in places you never knew you had. You don't care that you will have to stop for gas at nearly every station you see. You don't care that tires cost 1200.00 each. You get the car because you want the statement of having a super car.

When most people buy an RV they are buying into a lifestyle. Yes they get very bad gas mileage and you have to spend several thousand dollars to equip it after you leave the dealership. Yes it is more than likely that the cost to spend a week in the mountains in a hotel is cheaper. But in a hotel do you generally sit outside your room and cook steaks? Do you go an look at how the others in the hotel have decorated their rooms? If you are a guy do you compare the size of the other hotel rooms?

Driving your RV is for the lifestyle not saving money. I have heard it said that the definition of a boat is: A hole in the water in which to throw money. I have also heard of RV's being called land yachts. So then would the definition of an RV be a hole in the road in which to throw money?

[Maddawgs]

This is what I mean. The BOMBER drops this bomb to start a fire, a while later he adds some fuel to the fire, then sits back, reads all of our responses, laughs his butt off at the commotion he has created, and then doesn't have the balls to back any thing up. He just has 2 posts in 2 months. Most of us posters have more than that in just this thread. I hate BOMBERS...End of rant...
Todd

[azpete]

this is a post to get you to join his blog. i read some of what is there. mostly b.s.
i do agree there is always need of quality control, but unless you are willing to spend thousands more ,you get what you pay for.. i think he is one very unhappy person. i suspect it goes beyond owning a rv.
a motorhome has all there is in a car, and all that is in a home. all this bouncing down the road. some have more problems than others, but almost any of it can be fixed, even by the owner. if you are that unhappy with something, get rid of it. life is too short to sweat the small things.