Sprinter vs Ford in Similar Class C Floor Plan

[JimmyRV]

Gvwr of my 24' Sprinter is 11,030. Here is my weight ticket. 2 adults, full tank of gas full 80# propane tank 100# dog, about 100# of cargo on the back hitch. No fresh water. Fully loaded with normal camping and cooking supplies. Leaves me about 300# for food and drink.

[paddykern]

We bought the floor plan we wanted.
It was on a sprinter.
The driver/passenger seats on the sprinter are very good.
I can drive all day long without my bum getting sore.
I'm six foot and have plenty of room.


At 8,000 miles so far and no problems.


Sprinter is very easy to drive.


So far very happy.

[Murf2u]

The whole mileage thing is so much 'salesman' talk IMHO.

It's a he $$$ that count, not the MPG.

I've run the numbers a bunch of times for myself and others, unless you are driving a LOT of miles a year, a diesel doesn't even come close to paying for itself.

In my case for example, a 3,000 mile trip from Toronto to Florida I use (3,000 mi. / 8 mpg) 375 gallons round trip. If I ad a diesel getting 15 mpg it would take (3,000 mi. / 15 mpg) 200 gallons round trip.

At even say $2.50 / gallon that's a $437.50 difference.

When you consider the diesel upgrade starts north of $20k you see where the 'fuel savings' is really no savings at all.

Especially if you're in a high tax state where you're annual tax on that extra $20k or $40k means you pay your fuel savings back to the State in taxes.

[JJ Holiday]

Originally Posted by Murf2u

The whole mileage thing is so much 'salesman' talk IMHO.



It's a he $$$ that count, not the MPG.



I've run the numbers a bunch of times for myself and others, unless you are driving a LOT of miles a year, a diesel doesn't even come close to paying for itself.



In my case for example, a 3,000 mile trip from Toronto to Florida I use (3,000 mi. / 8 mpg) 375 gallons round trip. If I ad a diesel getting 15 mpg it would take (3,000 mi. / 15 mpg) 200 gallons round trip.



At even say $2.50 / gallon that's a $437.50 difference.



When you consider the diesel upgrade starts north of $20k you see where the 'fuel savings' is really no savings at all.



Especially if you're in a high tax state where you're annual tax on that extra $20k or $40k means you pay your fuel savings back to the State in taxes.

I agree it takes a while make up the savings on fuel, especially at today's current low gas prices. However, if gas prices increase, it impacts this equation quite a bit. For example, at today's current fuel prices in Southern CA, the cost per 100K miles in a gas (8 MPG at $2.69/gal) is $33,625 and diesel would be $15,563 (16 MPG at $2.49/gal). This is a fuel savings of $18,063. Increase both fuel prices $1/gal and the savings is $24,313.



Also, I know for some people (not me), it's more about saving fuel than saving money.



The other bigger financial consideration is resale value. The Sprinters seem to do a fair bit better in resale value.

We looked at both gas and Sprinters chassis units. It was really tough to compare the two as no MFG specs two identical units on the different chassis. In the case of Winnebago, the View/Navion has upgraded features versus the closest gas equivalent, so the higher price is not just for the chassis.



For us, the Sprinter was worth the extra bucks. I value a good driving experience (e.g. better handling, higher seating position, better visibility, etc.)...I love to drive...and we do a lot of it. About 15-20K miles per year. I also wanted to buy some "insurance" shall fuel prices increase. I didn't want high fuel prices to make us think twice about taking a trip. Anyway, to each their own.

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by JimmyRV

Gvwr of my 24' Sprinter is 11,030. Here is my weight ticket. 2 adults, full tank of gas full 80# propane tank 100# dog, about 100# of cargo on the back hitch. No fresh water. Fully loaded with normal camping and cooking supplies. Leaves me about 300# for food and drink.

Attachment 169121

Which shows a couple things:

1. You can make a sprinter work with it's limited CCC.
2. If you opted for a full tank of fresh water, you would be at max weight for the RV (assuming about a 35 gallon fresh water).

It's definitely doable especially if you aren't trying to tow over 4k lbs, and as others have mentioned, often it comes down to a floor plan you want and it only being on the Sprinter or Ford. The OP of this thread had the somewhat unique situation where the 2400W/2401W floorplans (Sunseeker/Forester) are identical to the 2430/2431 models, but for the Sprinter vs. E450. I haven't come across many, if any, other situations like this where you can get the identical floorplan, but have the option of the MBS or E450.

I should point out that is gone in 2018 as they are replacing the 2430/2431 floorplan with a slightly different floorplan on the Ford (slightly longer, rear bathroom) and it will no longer be identical to the 2401W.

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by JJ Holiday

I agree it takes a while make up the savings on fuel, especially at today's current low gas prices. However, if gas prices increase, it impacts this equation quite a bit. For example, at today's current fuel prices in Southern CA, the cost per 100K miles in a gas (8 MPG at $2.69/gal) is $33,625 and diesel would be $15,563 (16 MPG at $2.49/gal). This is a fuel savings of $18,063. Increase both fuel prices $1/gal and the savings is $24,313.

Also, I know for some people (not me), it's more about saving fuel than saving money.

We looked at both gas and Sprinters chassis units. It was really tough to compare the two as no MFG specs two identical units on the different chassis. In the case of Winnebago, the View/Navion has upgraded features versus the closest gas equivalent, so the higher price is not just for the chassis.

For us, the Sprinter was worth the extra buckets. I value a good driving experience (e.g. better handling, higher seating position, better visibility, etc.)...I love to drive...and we do a lot of it. About 15-20K miles per year. I also wanted to buy some "insurance" shall fuel prices increase. I didn't want high fuel prices to make us think twice about taking a trip. Anyway, to each their own.

Which is why other than a "green" component, it really needs to come down to the coach that fits (floorplan, driving experience, etc.) you best, because there simply is no payback on the extra price of the sprinter chassis in terms of fuel savings.

I'm curious if a poll was done on average miles driven or even how many people have put 100,000 miles on an RV before selling it, what those results would show. I'm guessing it's few and far between that put 100,000 miles on a coach, and even if you do, you also have to factor in other costs, such as the interest paid on the extra money borrowed to pay the Sprinter upcharge or the lost investment income if you paid cash, personal property taxes or other property taxes that will be charged at the higher value of the RV, etc.

Bottom line, for probably 99% of the people out there, they will never see the MPG savings pay back the cost of the Sprinter premium.

So, just like every other choice/compromise with RVs, it needs to come down to which one has the features/floorplan that suits you better.

[CharlesinGA]

Originally Posted by JimmyRV

Back to the OP's question: on a good day with a strong tailwind, you will be lucky to get 10 mpg on the Ford. I can get 15 all day long on my 24' Sprinter. Real downer though is the occc of the Sprinter. But, it really make you think of what you need and what you don't. Asthetically speaking, I do not like the duckbill overhead cab on the Sunseeker. In the end though, both are very nice choices. Happy camping!

While the OP didn't say, I assumed he was wanting to compare the Ford Transit chassis'ed motorhome with the Sprinter, as they would be the most closely aligned in size and other features.

The 5 cylinder Ford diesel is highly regarded world wide, however the Transit has a limited towing capacity and not as much leg room (for getting out of the seats and going back into the coach) as the Sprinter.

I think the Transit gets comparable fuel mileage to the Sprinter.

Charles

[Mooneypaul]

Originally Posted by wkdoolin

I have not used BG yet. Haven't found it. Had to end my part of the vacation a week ago and return to work. Wife has been in Canada rockys all week, stopped off in Great Falls.

BG DOC link

bg diesel oil conditioner

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by CharlesinGA

While the OP didn't say, I assumed he was wanting to compare the Ford Transit chassis'ed motorhome with the Sprinter, as they would be the most closely aligned in size and other features.

The 5 cylinder Ford diesel is highly regarded world wide, however the Transit has a limited towing capacity and not as much leg room (for getting out of the seats and going back into the coach) as the Sprinter.

I think the Transit gets comparable fuel mileage to the Sprinter.

Charles

No, it's the Ford E450 not the transit that the OP was asking about, because that's what they use in the 2430/2431 floor plan.

That 2400W/2401W vs 2430/2431 comparison with Forest river is a bit unique, in that they have the exact same floor plan (or nearly exact) in both a sprinter and E450 chassis. At least they did through 2017. In 2018 they are eliminating the 2430/2431 floor plan and replacing it with a similar, but slightly longer, rear bathroom floor plan on the E450, but still has the effect of a full wall slide (but will in fact be two separate slides).

[Skip3370]

Based on observations, the Ford E450 is a much more popular chassis compared to the Sprinter. Dealerships have many more Sprinters available and the E450's are selling like hot cakes. It used to be the diesels were easier and cheaper to maintain, but with the advent of fuel injection and 100,00 mile spark plugs/electronic ignition, maintenance costs on a gas engine are equal to a diesel. I have heard numerous complaints on waiting for repairs/parts for a Mercedes diesel and the limited availability of Mercedes authorized repair shops. Gasoline costs are historically cheaper than Diesel and if gas goes up, so does diesel. Gasoline pumps are much more readily available than diesel, not to mention the percentage of bio diesel a lot of times will exceed manufacturer recommendations.


So, that is just my experiences. Some people will swear by diesels and some will swear by them. As to the overheating issues I would suggest looking into a product called "Be Cool" that a lot of hot rodders use or waterless coolant.

[wkdoolin]

Originally Posted by Mooneypaul

BG DOC link



bg diesel oil conditioner

Thanks. Our Sprinter is back home. Before next summers road trips I'm going to look for some engine mods, larger radiator and intercooler (if it has one), heat shield on turbo and piping, aux trans and oil coolers (they are currently within the radiator). And larger exhaust from turbo to the back (stock is very small for that long run) Step are not extending and diesel generator will not start AGAIN. Had it pulled mid trip, they thought some of the wiring was loose. Tore up one tire and simulators ate through a valve stem. Changed the oil mid trip cause I was concerned about high engine temps. Loose bolts and screws everywhere, will use lock tite on all of them. Diesel generator is a bit undersized, ya have to watch what you have on or you will kill it. Low oil level is a bit sensitive, sloshing will shut the generator down. Other than all that, all was good. Great ride, could use a heavier anti-sway bar and steering stabilizer. This is a 2017 Thor Synergy, 2016 MB Sprinter with 3.0L diesel

[hoosierrun]

Originally Posted by Mooneypaul

I am sorry to hear about Hoosierrun's problems. But there are many thousands of these Sprinter vans out there driving millions of miles. So, I would not want folks to get the idea that what happened to him is common.

As far as the Stevens Service article. Most of what he is writing about applies to cars not Sprinters (IMHO). The Bluetec engines do have some quirks but if you change the oil every 10K and minimize idling, most of the issues he raises are eliminated.

I read the Sprinter Forum https://sprinter-source.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10 and I just don't see major problems being mentioned with the MB chassis.

But I agree with the posts about OCCC. But how much higher is in the Ford based models of a similar weight?

I would agree that there are many fine running Sprinters out there with minimal problems, however, when something does go wrong, the Mercedes dealers do not seem to have the capability to repair these. The design is so complex that even their $15,000 diagnostic equipment can't identify the problem. In our case, they have Mercedes engineers providing consultation to the dealership, and basically the local techs have given up, and will only do what they are being told to by the engineers. Our RV is less than a year old and has about 12,000 miles on it. According to the owners manual, the first need for service is at 20,000 miles. At this point, I believe our vehicle is being used as a repair training unit for Mercedes techs.

It is not just my vehicle. There are 6 to 8 Fed Ex Sprinters and 3 to 4 more RVs that have been there a few weeks. Based on that, I would say they have a problem.

My wife and I have been stuck in town (a nice town) going on 5 weeks. At the end of this week, we plan to box up our personal belongings and ship them home to Florida (from Montana). We have a toad vehicle that we can drive, but it will be a very uncomfortable drive of 2000+ miles in a RAV4. We have to stop in Indiana for my wife to visit her 87 year old father who has cancer and then we'll head south to the house in Florida.

Mercedes says they will help us with expenses (definitely a relief), but where it goes from here, who knows?

[TimeAweigh]

Great thread! We are choosing to go with a Ford chassis that has the floor plan we like. Fortunately both are available as the Phoenix Cruiser 2552.

- I have driven diesel powered vehicles and the fuel stinks, even with gloves because you have to store the gloves
- Propane as a genny fuel is a deal breaker. Diesel genny is heavy and expensive, and there is that diesel stink again in the exhaust
- Ford chassis can be leveled
- MB has a great product until...
- I do not drive at engine red line on revs all the time. I also do not wish to drive at the limit of the weight capacity of the chassis either.
- We will not full time so 100k on the clock will never happen to justify diesel power
- I can fix a Ford

As so many have said, it is personal preference. For a real debate go on a boating forum and ask one engine or two.

May your tires be round and the road clear ahead...

[wkdoolin]

Sprinter Auxiliary transmission cooler
HTTPS://www.sprinterstore.com